What do you mean with this in context about what you just wrote over there 
The topic is “Do problem players have any responsibility to change their own behavior?” The topic isn’t “Do bullies have any responsibility to change their own behavior?” Maybe autists or white knights are “problem players”. Maybe some of them simply CAN’T change their own behavior. And when that behavior is callous, repeated disregard for the state of society’s other members, maybe it really is some sort of “problem”.
I don’t think it’s off topic.
You want to thought-police people.
Its not about the fact he blew you up, its the fact he blew you up with the intention of making you feel bad. and now you want an authority figure to punish him. You feel helpless to fight him and so you want another stronger bully to bully him on your behalf.
This game is about blowing spaceships up. Its about being able to hold people ransom, destroy their life’s work and collapse entire empires.
Have you ever played monopoly? Should you get a free pass on Boardwalk just because you think i put a hotel on it to get you?
Im sorry but maybe all this sheltering is whats causing you the mental anguish. Letting it bother you to the point you claim PTSD over someone blowing up your videogame spaceship is the real problem.
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At least you are admitting you have a problem.
Thats the first step.
I will be flagging all discobot activation posts/responses as spam.
Not only are they always offtopic, but as its an automated response, it categorically constitutes the definition of spam.
Last thing we need is a goddam NPC spamming up these boards.
Let me paraphrase what you said in the second quote: All who fixate on power try to control others.
It sounds like you do know exactly what “fixation with “the other”” means.
Should humans be eating eachother?
That statement is true. So are these:
- Life creates life.
- Life does not consume life.
You keep referring to other humans as food.
But what about you? And what about your mother?
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What if I tell you that I find your behavior offensive, jerkish, toxic and improper to this socieites standards.
Are you now going to change your behavior?
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Yes you are equating mental illness with problem behaviour, once again pushing that stereotype and stigma that is at the root of most real bullying that occurs in the real world and here in game.
The mentally ill are vastly more likely to be the victims of harassment bullying and violence than those without the same problems, and they are statistically much less likely to have the support networks in and out of game, or the means to form them, than those without similar problems.
You do not need to be mad to be bad- as this performance demonstrates- we have created a space to discuss problem players and their responsibilities
In this thread, who are the problem players?
Are they mentally ill? How do you know? Internet diagnosis or the simple application of an equation that lies at the root of all this ganking=greifing=sociopathy=mental illness
The equation goes like this
MAD = DANGEROUS
I AM NOT MAD = I AM NOT DANGEROUS (whether my words and actions cause pain or not they are rational to me, I have reasons, and thus not a DANGER)
THEY ARE DANGEROUS = THEY ARE MAD
Thus the mentally ill should be removed from this game and all spaces where the ‘normal’ live and work, and this would solve all of the worlds problems,
never mind that behind every mass shooter and maniac there is a litany of complaints that they were ‘odd’ and ‘loners’ and ‘had no friends’.
You do not have to be mentally ill to be aggressive. To single someone out as different and make their life hell every day for fun, hiding in a group of ‘righteous people’ ‘good people’ ‘our kind of people’.
I hope you never develop a mental illness and see the world turn its back on you as a danger and a threat, because you are scared and your mind has stopped functioning as it should.
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Have you read Lacan?
I think you would enjoy him immensely.
Not a snark, I think you would enjoy him IMMENSLY. Not agree per se, but enjoy.
As far as I am concerned, Mayhaw is an empty vessel who’s sole constitution, his soul to use a classical term, is entirely fixated upon a model of the ‘other’, that attitude TOWARDS and AGAINST an ‘other’ who only exists in his mind, yet which, for him, is the ground and horizon of his whole reality,the thread that provides the context that gives all of the terms of his discourse and their placement a very specific meaning for him and him alone, a private language of hate that communicates nothing because it is private, without this ‘other’ to denigrate and by which he can judge his own conduct as good and wholesome, he would have no substance, no content, no soul-
he needs his ‘other’ and his war for justice, that can never end, to ensure the constant deferral of the satisfaction he craves, but which would kill the only thing giving his life meaning- desire- in his case the desire to
have power over others, righteous power, the power to save as jesus and mohammed, the power of the sage who knows all because he has seen evil and
it is ‘OTHER’.
But that is not a diagnosis, except in the sense we are all born mad, for who amongst us does not have an ‘other’ by which we judge ourselves and others?
how’s that for psychobabble?
I certainly enjoyed it, and I am not sure I am very far off the mark.
Yes, but you are the problem player,
as you derail and push an agenda
hiding behind rhetoric
Do you think the way you spoke to me about my abilities was acceptable?
Or let me put this another way, if we were colleagues, and I produced a piece of work that others found valuable,
and your response was to say
but yes, Wikipedia says this about autism, so maybe you just don’t understand?
And used that to shut down my contribution, (edit- and also co-opted other coleagues and things they had said in another context to try and isolate me in the discussion) while moving the emphasis away from your original argument in this thread about 'where did he ask for help’
Using my disability to invalidate my contribution in toto
Would that be bullying?
Yes or No?
That post SHOWS who you are, whatever you SAY, whatever you INTEND, you have SHOWN what you really think.
PS. Are you an undergraduate at a second ter university who read the introduction to grammatology and one zizek article? You don’t actualy address any of my questions do you.
But I have a disability, which I an deal with and I do not ask for help, I am both disabled AND better at this than you. How does that make you feel?
OKAY ANOTHER EDIT:
THIS IS MAYHAW AT THE START OF THE THREAD
" would be interested in hearing about those criteria.
I think part of the hang-up some moderate people have with calling this spade a spade is that it doesn’t fit the stereotypical image of “bullying”. It’s not a big kid physically abusing a small kid every day in a space they are both required to be in just because the big kid thinks it’s fun. But that stereotypical model can help us determine what is “bullying” by describing it more generally.
big versus small -> power differential
physical abuse -> intentional psychological harm to the victim
every day -> chronic reoccurrence
a space they MUST both occupy -> compulsion to interact
"it’s fun" -> psychological gratification for the victimizer"
Big versus small- I’m disabled, you aren’t- I’m arguing for myself, you are co-opting others
intentional psychological harm- shut down content from disabled person through use of labels and Wikipedia articles
every day- every time I post
a space they must occupy- well no- we only HAVE to be here if we want to engage in the forums- but we both have a right to be here in the forums- there is no question of this being low sec, or me being able to use opsec to avoid you and your use of my disability as a weapon
’its fun’ well if this isn’t psychologically rewarding to you why do it?
EXCEPT- I’m not crying BULLY HELP, I’m saying this guy is a bully, don’t mind me I eat peeps like this for breakfast its a big part of my career to be honest, but I am saying
community what is bullying?
Mayhaw and his labels, his assertion of power based on another’s disability, or non-consensual pvp in a game that includes that as a viable option in the RULES, which is the topic of the thread, problem players and how they are dealt with.
You, Mayhaw my friend, are not breaking the rules of the game, but the rules of polite society.
Please feel free to quote any line from this post out of context and to harp on about it endlessly.
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So before I go on I will post this, you asked the community, you got an answer, if those answers do not suit you then you should not ask these questions in a free forum setting.
That being said you asked if people with bad behavior should be removed, in order for a community to function there needs to be a certain level of order, when that order breaks down we call this chaos, there is a reason why even in this game that it is built the way it is, high/low/null, order/simi order/disorder, but, even in null and WH space people strive to maintain a level of order, they come together to survive the disorder, same for the ghetto of EVE, low sec, this game has rules for bullying, for people with bad behavior, its called the EULA and this is the ultimate rule book, so back to your question, should people with bad behavior be dealt with, yes, but it is not up to me with my opinion, and it is not whatever you think, it is the EULA, if they break those rules then by all means report it, I am in favor of order.
Please remememer, I’m not the OP, my position is quite clear, bullying and harrasment in game are rare, and when they occur they are dealt with by the rules of the game, and often the community as well.
This is a harsh pvp sandbox and the correct response to most cries of bullying and harassment are- you are not being bullied or harassed HTFU, but can I help you to LEARN to do better next time.
I am not asking for any problem players to be removed, OK well one guy I haven’t even replied to not in this thread, and just from the forums because I think CCP will want him gone tbh (pretty nasty stuff to have on a forum), but that’s up to CCP not me, and its got nothing to do with this thread.
My reply to your post, and why I flagged it, was down to the way you casually link violence with mental illness, thought it was a bit OTT and dragged the discussion down tbh.
My question to the community about whetehr Mayhaw was bullying me, if that is what you referred to. boils down to this:
The whole argument with mayhaw from ‘who took the money’ to ‘who cried for help’ has hinged on this- that PVP
in a PVP game, even none-consensual PVP, is not de facto bullying and harassment- this is the argument he and I have been having- he has tried to say that gankers are bullies and griefers.
No, he was not bullying me, because he is not in a position of power over me, because despite my disability, globally I am more able than him, and can speak for myself. You may have noticed this about me?
If eve is always pvp, and this is forum pvp, then in a very real sense I owned him, as you will see by the increasing desperation and emptiness to his replies.
And he just proved my point and disproved his by being himself, someone who read something once and links to Wikipedia articles.
I would not have outed myself on the EVE forums as Autistic without expecting responses like Mayhaws-
its just he set himself up as the defender of the weak and as is so often the case with people like that he revealed himself to be the bully.
As for the responses to my last post asking the community what they thought- I AGREE with the spam responses, especially with Galaxy Pig because ultimately only discobot has the answer.
OK I SWEAR there was a discobt thing from @Galaxy_Pig, but now its gone, I shall go for a lie down now
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@discobot help grumpy old carebears clean thread
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Wrecked.
Good job CCP.
Discobot is kill.
Good riddance to NPC nonsense,
Returning to topic, responsibility for ones actions is always enforced by an external force greater than your own. I learned this intuitively and integrally during my legal studies.
All that is allowed, is allowed…
That which is not, is not.
Sometimes, or usually always, legality drags behind contemporary reality, but it also usually catches up soon enough.
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The age old question in eve, is PVP in an open sandbox bullying/griefing, according to the rules it depends, mostly that is a no, but continued unwanted focus can be.
Think of the policy regarding noob space and noobs, can flipping noobs, etc, this is an open PVP game but…hassling noobs is a banable offense, why, because there must be a level of order, problem is those that can’t control their impulsive behaviors, so what does this mean, if there is no control over impulsive behaviors then there is a disconnect in the brain, the only tool ccp has is the ability to ban (punishment), so people understand to leave the noobs alone, what does this mean, people will seek an outlet for their behavior, griefing, they find people who are susceptible to their behavior and then go after their prey, once, twice, ok, but continued unwanted contact, at what point do they get this satisfaction, never, the point is to torture others, others who are not as thick skinned as some are, to take pleasure in the torment of another what does that say about someone, at what point does someone say enough, you can believe you won, according to the EULA your mostly correct, but people who are not interested in interactions should be left alone, it’s the moral thing to do, this is a game and those are real people behind the keys, as you said some are disabled and this may be all they have, what would it serve to make this an unhappy place for them, there is so many avenues for PVP but over the years I’ve come to know this, it’s not PVP that some want, it’s PVV (player vs victims), and that is sad.
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#rkt
#Salvosrektdiscobot
#millenials
#backinmyday
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well I appreciate you telling me that story and that is how you see it
but you assume so much
“those that can’t control their impulsive behaviors, so what does this mean, if there is no control over impulsive behaviors then there is a disconnect in the brain…so people understand to leave the noobs alone, what does this mean, people will seek an outlet for their behavior, griefing, they find people who are susceptible to their behavior and then go after their prey, once, twice, ok, but continued unwanted contact, at what point do they get this satisfaction, never, the point is to torture others, others who are not as thick skinned as some are, to take pleasure in the torment of another what does that say about someone”
Well I don’t know if it was this thread or the other that got closed, but no one could find any evidence of this kind of behaviour that didn’t get a ban, so I don’t think it really happens that much but then you say
but people who are not interested in interactions should be left alone, it’s the moral thing to do, this is a game and those are real people behind the keys
But its an MMO, and even if they want to be left alone, its an open world sandbox MMO so while they might be left alone, they aren’t leaving others alone, because they are doing PVP. Every time they log in and do something other than ship spin in this game they are engaging in player versus player interactions. Even just dropping loots on the market.
You can say ‘its not pvp some want its pvv, player versus victim’ but that’s a story
Show me the PROOF, show me the rampant greifing, because greifing has to be for the sole intent of causing greif, you can do that in a theme park, but in a PVP sandbox there is ALWAYS a server wide impact, hey even if the guy sets out just to grief he’s still impacting the market etc.
So rather than an abstract story about how you think the psychology of these ‘greifers’ works, why not give us some actual examples
of players greifing and harassing that were not banned by CCP or dealt with by the community, and you know what
we can report them together and get them banned.
Does this mean discobot won’t quote or do fortunes anymore?
But I liked his contribution it kept things a bit less serious,
I know we have you Galaxy Pig
but I liked discobot
You want proof, no you don’t or you won’t take the proof that’s already there, many moons ago can flipping noobs and griefing was a big pastime in this game, the rules changed because of that kind of behavior, I can’t push my opinion or theory upon you, it is up to you to take it and weigh it’s merits upon facts, evidence, or patterns, humans are predatory, it is our nature, it has helped us survive, but give or take elements of complex connections of brains cells, one you get a person obsessed with killing (negative behavior) or you get a person determined to climb mountains (we mostly think is a positive trait), you get a survivor or a person who dies, the complexities of the brains connections is only now being understood, now take ~7 billion plus possible combinations, you are asking for the impossible to be put in a neat package, if you’re a reasonable person you will see that we can only make judgements upon our experience and what our brains see as patterns, if enough brains agree there is consensus if not disagreements, at which point I will defer you back to yourself, nothing I post will make it right for a person who doesn’t wish to be open to see.
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Even bots/NPCs must follow the rules.
Yes, I killed discobot.
Where is my killmail? Oh, its an NPC…