LOL sorry but fleet fights are different than 1v1.
Any fleet fight that DOESNT have some form of EWAR is a bad fleet.
The nastiest thing I have run into is a fleet of mixed ships, with dedicated logi and 2-3 EWar ships.
We ran damps in our fleet and it destroyed the enemy. Far more than ECM. Our logi sat out of their sniper range, and our snipers could easily destroy their logi.
If you are getting jammed by an ECM boat, or expect to see one run a sensor booster with ECCM script. Sitting at face hugging range on an ECM boat is often a bad idea.
It isn’t rocket science… EWAR has its drawbacks like its cap draw is stupid, the random chance at a jam is pretty bad. And the time between cycles is HORRIBLE.
And it is funny as hell no one complains about the Minmatar Ewar bonus of target painters… the most useless EWAR bonus in history…
do you have any idea how much damage a single TP ship can bring to a fleet? it makes you far more likely to get bonus damage with turrets (.01-49% more damage) coupled with the T2 TP ships also having web range and bam.
TP is helpful in situations where large guns are present. Turning glancing hits in to penetrating shots. The range on a tp is fairly long and the sig bloom more substantial as you climb ship catagories. Stitch Kaneland did a vid where he used torpedoes on a solo typhoon , iirc he used TP because it helps a lot with application on frigs especially when paired with webs. Cruise missiles and torps have very high alpha but atrocious application. TP make a huge difference.
I just fly with HG sensor implants, like jackal/talon. Combined with a navy battleship and SEBO, its over 100SS. You could still get jammed (EC300s OP), but it reduces their effectiveness severely.
LS is full of bads who use ECM as a crutch to hide how terrible they are. Its fun to watch their jams miss time after time as their friends die.
We have, you are just chosing to ingnore us. First of all how would you change ecm mechanics? For the most part every from of ewar is covered so what will ECM do?
this fit is why ecm is balanced,
[Heron, amor Heron]
Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer
Small Ghoul Compact Energy Nosferatu
Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Warrior II x3
Hobgoblin II x1
Nanite Repair Paste x8
Optimal Range Disruption Script x2
Caldari Navy Thorium Charge S x400
do you want to know why this fit show why ECM is balanced, because ecm can’t do what this fit can do, this fit can take on and win against Sabers, Hecetas, and a ferox. Need proof? Here’s the video where this guy goes and hunts the said ships https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir910TNwcdw,
now what I HAVE SHOWN YOU WHY ECM IS BALANCED the next time you get jammed, you can remember that you got unlucky and it could of been worse.
If you have a Battleship doctrine fleet with Large guns, the use of target painters is essential to let you actually hit the target.
There’s a reason that Paints & Webs are the most common forms of EWAR in fleet combat. Their effectiveness is perfectly force multiplicative for large fleets; a single Target Painter is effectively worth more than several battleships once you already have enough battleships.
The effect is particularly important to alpha based doctrines.
Except its balanced by being counterable. Hit with a small neut(s), and it loses its ability to use EWAR. A drone boat or missile boat could eat it up as well. A turret ship can also mitigate that by being faster and getting ontop of you. These are all available options to counter.
You put a SEBO w/ ECCM script on your frigate, youre still jammed no matter how you fit or maneuver.
Griffins/kitsunes/blackbirds are all super common in LS. You dont 1v1 with ecm (unless navy griffin, scorp and maybe rook).
Its used as a way to cheese fights when they bait with a single ship, then warp ECM to jam out your ship.
Your heron can easily be killed by a variety of ships, its counterable. My battleship can be jammed by a griffin, sometimes indefinitely with no way to counter if RNG is against you.
can’t say i have that problem. I’ve been in countless engagments and i hve more problems from rooks and falcons in WH, anywhere else and its the other forms of ewar.
Sure the Heron is counterable, but you couldn’t take the same engagements if it was fit with 2 ecm mods, hence why its balanced. that fit/link is for @Caleb_Seremshur who wanted to see a fit/scenario where ecm is invalid as a tactic.
Well LS FW has more unskilled pilots, so BB/griffin are much more common.
Using ECM doesnt need to fall to using mods. An ec300 algos can be a headache. Or ec600 anything that has 50bandwidth. Non bonused ECM scales well with numbers. I ran across 2 gnosis w/aug logi that each had 2 multispec ecm. There was one fight where both jammed me till i was down to about 30% structure (120k EHP ship), and i was in a fleet typhoon (higher than average SS).
I then put ecm drones on the gnosis that had scram and i MJD’d out at like 15% structure. So we all used unbonused ECM to get the effect we wanted.
You don’t need a sensor booster, you can sacrifice your lowslot to fit a signal amplifier instead. it has the exact same bonuses except it can’t be scripted and it’s passive. if you’re refusing to sacrifice any slots for ewar protection then that’s your own fault.
We had low expectations going in but the power to just shut off enemies completely was too good. Unfortunately trying to kill 2 rorquals proved above our capabilities for 3 rooks and a worm
