Actually he doesn’t, as a PvE biased player I don’t share a playstyle with @Merin_Ryskin yet he doesn’t call me farmer trash.
Something to do with me adapting my gameplay in the face of change instead of whining to CCP about said change.
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So far i´ve seen only self entitlement beyond all imagination.
I havent read every single post in this thread but nowhere i´ve stated that i personaly want risk free pve. Yet i´ve lost count on how many times you used word “trash” in your posts. Probably it has something to do with false assumtions but oh well.
You could be perfectly replaced with diamond rats. I guess you are just an npc.
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Then why are you defending the farmer trash that wants to ruin your game?
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Actually he did.
And many times in other posts. Enjoy your npc status.
There was pretty few posts here about the actual upcomming change, yet alone whining to CCP about it. This thread turned into general discussion of something else.
Please show me a single post in this thread that proposed to ruin my game.
I did no such thing. Because, as they pointed out, when faced with change and adversity they adapt and overcome instead of whining at CCP and demanding that they make the game easier. They don’t want a game of menial farming tasks where all you do is passively watch your wallet numbers go up.
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I haven´t read every single post… but can´t remember a single time when someone proposed here to “nerf pvp, give us more farm etc”. Those players indeed exist and they can go to test server if they want to farm without any risk at all.
Btw i wonder: how exactly do they differ from “l33t pvp warriors” on reddit who beg CCP every single week to “let us farm kills”? To turn all krabs into blind and stationary pinjatas that they can farm all day long?
Clearly you haven’t been reading any of the objections to a permanent ESS and the claims of how it is “nerfing PvE unfairly” and will “kill EVE because all the PvE players will quit.”
To turn all krabs into blind and stationary pinjatas that they can farm all day long?
Nobody is arguing for this. If farmer trash is blind and stationary and helpless it is only because they choose to be. They have plenty of tools available to make life painful and short for any PvP aggressor who looks in their direction, but instead they declare themselves to be helpless perma-victims whose only conceivable response to PvP threats is to dock up until local is empty of non-blues again.
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I´ve seen those and i gotta mention a few things: 1 - i dont support everythig that was written, 2 - some of them will probably appear to be incorrect when CCP will give us info about actual game mechanics, 3 - the way CCP described it gives me an image about something that has to managed literally 24/7. And nothing in eve has to be managed 24/7 (yet). Hopefully my image is wrong.
I´ve seen quiet a few posts “add much more npcs with points and other e-war + remove local” +etc etc. Already those 2 changes together will turn a ratter into a blind and stationary pinjata which just has to wait there to be killed by gankers while being permapointed by npcs.
I know that it´s not fun at all when entire constellation docks up when you´ve been spotted and reported. It´s not fun to see your target warps away when you are about to land in a anomaly. Is it an issue? Partially.
First of all: they are very welcome to respond with docking up. They are not obliged in any shape or form to serve others their playstyle. If they want to run - they can run. They are not making any isk anyway while docked.
Second: i propose to look at issues carefully. Take a good look at a chessboard from white perspective, then from black perspective, then consider options and consequenses for potential changes. What i will never accept as a method of solving issues is simply take a look from one colours pserpective, remove a queen and a horse of other colour and call it "balance.
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Why is the farmer solo? Why is the farmer unable to kill the NPCs with ewar? Why is the farmer unable to MJD around the mission site so that any PvP threat arrives too far away to catch them? Why does killing NPCs have to be a menial task where anything that could possibly involve any challenge must be rejected because it would make the farmer “too vulnerable”? Where did this weird idea that farmers should be safe in nullsec even come from?
First of all: they are very welcome to respond with docking up.
They are. But they should not have immediate and 100% accurate warnings that it’s time to dock up, especially not when getting that warning involves zero effort and the only possible counter is something farmers want to remove.
What i will never accept as a method of solving issues is simply take a look from one colours pserpective, remove a queen and a horse of other colour and call it "balance.
Except in this case we don’t have two equal sides. On one side we have PvP players and legitimate PvE players, on the other side we have farmer trash parasites who want a menial game of passively watching their wallet numbers increase. Nerfing farmer trash out of the game is good for everyone else, and their “side” has no merit whatsoever to consider.
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Why does he suddenly has to be in group? And as you´ve stated yourself in one of the previous posts:
they are not allowed to group up anyway.
Farmer is able to kill ewar NPC but it will take time: have you seen those sites that dropped EDENCOM stuff? You are permenantly pointed there unless you kill everyone and a potential ganker has to be astronomicly unlucky to miss you there. This is just an example of being able to kill takle and being stationary at the same time.
About MJD: i´ve seen propositions to add npcs with scram, so yeah. BTW ganker is very welcome to mjd to target. Not all gankers can fit mjd? Well not all krabs can fit mjd either. Side note: those EDENCOM tacklers had scrams.
People prefer to not krab in pvp fits with half of their modules being useless for the task (certain people will never pvp but it´s abother matter). They fit pve ships and are almost always vulnerable against gankers.
Krabs should not be safe, but balance between safety/danger and effort for achieving safety/danger should be there. Why should someone just enter a system undetected and go for “where are my kills? i clearly entered the system”?
A ganker has the same immediate and 100% accurate info if system is populated or not. As i wrote above: is that an issue? Partially. Secure channels work thanks to the people activly reporting neutrals (bots can burn in fire). Not sure what do they want to remove tbh.
You forgot someting: on one side we have PVPers and legitimate PVEers. They want different stuff but are in agreement that changes should be worked through by CCP and people have to adapt to game changes (hell, EVE is not the same as it was a year ago).
On the other side we have PVE trash and PVP trash. They want different stuff but are in agreement that changes should be implemented only if they serve their specific playstile and it should be achieved by cryin to CCP, the louder you cry the quicker and more one-sided potential change should be.
Because nullsec is supposed to be about cooperative empire building. You can play solo, but you can’t complain that it is riskier to do so.
they are not allowed to group up anyway.
Nope. That’s not what I said. There is an immense difference between “you can’t group up” and “you can’t put everyone into a single fortress system”.
People prefer to not krab in pvp fits with half of their modules being useless for the task
Well yes, I know that farmer trash hates the idea of doing anything that would reduce its ISK per hour and would prefer to have CCP remove anything that requires such a fit. However I see no merit at all in this demand and no reason to consider it.
The simple fact here is that PvE is way too easy. It’s a menial task where the only challenge is remaining disciplined enough to keep watching local instead of activating your weapons and switching windows to watch a movie/scroll facebook/etc. The fact that you think that it’s unfair to make PvE at all more interesting or challenging is utter lunacy.
Why should someone just enter a system undetected and go for “where are my kills? i clearly entered the system”?
Good question. Fortunately even without local PvP defenders have plenty of options for not giving away free kills. In fact, the lack of local opens up quite a few opportunities for counter-attacking against a PvP threat and slaughtering it. The fact that self-declared helpless perma-victims will refuse to use these options does not mean that we need to keep local.
A ganker has the same immediate and 100% accurate info if system is populated or not.
So what? That information is of limited value because it only tells the PvP aggressor a tiny part of what they need to know to execute an attack. It tells the defender 100% of what they need to know, immediately and without any chance of error, to have a guaranteed escape from any conceivable PvP threat. That is NOT a balanced situation.
Not sure what do they want to remove tbh.
AFK cloaking, the one way to make local no longer 100% accurate.
On the other side we have PVE trash and PVP trash.
**** off with this nonsense. This supposed “PvP trash” barely exists, if it exists at all. Hardly anyone is proposing one-sided PvP buffs that break the game in favor of PvP. But the forum is absolutely full of farmer trash demanding nerfs to anything that gets in the way of risk-free AFK farming.
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Lol apparently he’s making out that Merin is calling us krabs.
What a goofus.
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True that, but they dont have to group up for something they can do solo.
Aha. Krabs will always at least try to achieve max security and one of those ways could be cooperative play where tons of players activly work to protect vulnerable ships from blowing up. And your response? “No-no, we can´t have that”.
No, it´s about “why waste 100 real life hours for something that could be done in 75 hours”? Oh, apparently because someone sees that as a bad-bad thing.
PVE is indeed “a solved problem”. It still takes time and here and there there is a chanse for something to happen (wildly varies from the specific type of activity or specific complex/anomaly). Should PVE aspect be reworked? I´m all for it: there are few things that are more boring that shooting anomalies/running missions 24/7 and some activities have issues that should be adressed. Should it be nerfed into oblivion with risk and effort to achieve this shitty income going up through the roof? Who will do it then?
Like what? Have a fleet on standby for hours and hours and waiting for something that may or may not happen? Or gankers will suddenly stop running away when they will meet not a free kill but something that can actually murder them? The fact that self-declared i-know-it-all True PVPer can´t handle krabs ability to run and safe up does not mean that we need to remove local.
I genuenly laughed at this one. You enter a system (which you already pre-checked on a map and found a high killed npc numbers, btw why no one is complaining about free intel on a map - good question) and see some people there. Some may be in pvp ships, some may be afk, some may be krabs.
Local residents see neutral and act accordingly: someone runs, someone stays, you name it.
Bost sides can use d-scan (thougt it kinda useless vs 1 type of ships and ships and are already cloacked up). What else do you want? Check killboard of any populated region: krabs die right, left and center even with local. Wat else do you want?
Wrong. Local is still accurate: we have a hostile with a cyno that will teleport a fleet to anything that this cyno will catch. And this hostile will always be successfull with teleporting fleet unless he makes an absolute horrible misstake. And this cynoship will not go for a good fight, it will uncloack only when it´s sure that a killmail without a retalistion is on the way.
You can *** off. You know why? This PVP trash exist in larger numbers than you expect. Hardly anyone is proposing? Ma lord, you´ve clearly haven´t seen stuff i´ve seen.
Forums are full of krabs who propose all kind of noncesce up to “removing pvp entirely from the game”, yes. But believing that “they do all that stuff, but we dont, we are the good guys” is… not that bright approach.
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They don’t. But if they can’t handle the PvP solo that doesn’t mean CCP needs to nerf the PvP threat until they can.
And your response? “No-no, we can´t have that”.
Now you’re starting to get it! Maximum security should not be easy in nullsec because it breaks the risk vs. reward balance. You should have to choose between maximum security and low income (one fortress system for your whole alliance), balancing security and income (grouping up across several systems), or minimum security and high income (everyone solo farming their own system). If players wish to minimize risks by consolidating everything into a single system they are free to do so, they just can’t expect to do it without suffering a loss of income.
No, it´s about “why waste 100 real life hours for something that could be done in 75 hours”?
No, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about farmer trash whining that a change would require 100 hours to make their wallet numbers go up an amount equal to what they get now in 75 hours. Obviously you should choose the most efficient way of making ISK, but you aren’t entitled to have CCP remove all drawbacks to your theoretical perfect farming setup.
Who will do it then?
People who are not farmer trash. Remember, many players do PvE because they enjoy the challenge and would welcome an increase in difficulty and risk. Farmer trash does not speak for everyone when they insist that farming must be a menial zero-risk activity.
Have a fleet on standby for hours and hours and waiting for something that may or may not happen?
Yep. Farmer trash needs to accept the fact that farming is something you earn by consistent PvP presence in defense of it, not just by being able to defeat the NPCs. If you want low-risk farming then you should have to coordinate it with the rest of your corp/alliance and defend it.
The fact that self-declared i-know-it-all True PVPer can´t handle krabs ability to run and safe up does not mean that we need to remove local.
Please explain just how exactly it is even theoretically possible to catch an alert PvE player who is farming in a system with no other non-blue players.
btw why no one is complaining about free intel on a map - good question) and see some people there.
Because map intel gives, at best, an incomplete picture. It can tell you that there are NPC kills in a system, it can’t tell you that there is also an active PvP fleet defending the PvE players that will kill you as soon as you attempt to attack. Using map intel requires pulling together different information sources to build as much of a picture as you can, and still involves a degree of risk because the information is not complete or current.
Using local to avoid PvP, on the other hand, requires no effort and has no chance of error. As soon as you see a non-blue name appear in local you hit “warp” and automatically escape with zero chance of failure.
Wat else do you want?
A system where PvE players die for reasons other than being complete idiots and/or AFK. As it exists now that is not possible.
Local is still accurate:
No it isn’t. Local tells you that a hostile is present, but that hostile is present 23/7. It does not tell you that the hostile is active. If you are using local as your primary intel tool you can never undock to PvE. To do anything but hide in station you have to ignore the name in local and use alternative, less-accurate intel tools.
And this hostile will always be successfull with teleporting fleet unless he makes an absolute horrible misstake.
Or the target stops being a useless perma-victim and counters the attack. Black ops attacks only succeed because useless perma-victims keep letting themselves die, against competent PvP alliances they are borderline useless.
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Most likely another thing that’s a novelty for a week then forgotten. Like the actual currently existing ESS. I doubt a single person in this thread went a stole from an ESS in the entire past year, so why would this new ESS would be any different.
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Because now using it is mandatory, and because if CCP is smart they’ll decrease the ramp rate so that if you always take out the ISK every time a non-blue player is reported in the region you’ll be taking a major hit to your income. That forces you to defend the ESS at all times and gives a target for your enemies to attack. IOW, content.
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A certain krab followed your proposal and fitted a good pvp praxis. Got dropped and deleted by 50 bombers. What did he do wrong?
Unfortunately you dont. If only you would see that something a sinle bomber with a covert cyno can do shoud not be achieved by afking.
Yes it is. I dont advocate for removal of drawbacks (one of them is non-pvp fit/shitp btw) but 25 real life difference is quiet a thing, specially if it´s implemented because someone thinks that krabs should suffer and he does not.
Many players do PvE because the enjoy the challenge? Didn´t you say that
Heh. And pls dont speak for everyone, specially for PVE players, they can speak for themselves.
I welcome you to such fleets. Realy want to know how soon you will just stop joining since “you have something better to do” and simply wasting your time in such fleets is more tedious than shooting a keepstar with a rookie ship. Once again “they have to do all the things but god forbid if i have to some extra effort”.
By entering local and shotgunning anomalies? By going for a login trap (but that requiers an effort, right?). Or do they just have to die if you entered a system while they are in a anomaly? Yes, you will not always suceed, that´s why it is called “hunting” and not “farming”.
So you want 100% intel even before you enter a system? Didn´t you advocate for an interesting gameplay and challenge, that implies certain level of the unknown and randomness?
BTW all the work you have to do is press a few buttonw on a dotlan.
Let´s forget that local chat is the most unreliable game mechanic courtesy to CCP´s way of handeling functioning chats (though i gotta admit that chats were working much better lately than before). Oasa | Region | zKillboard just a random region in EVE. Look at krabs that somehow died even to npcs. Guess they didn´t know how to warp out or something.
I´ve checked zkb for other regions… if you somehow fail to kill all those krabs that die every single day… something must be wrong on your side.
Yes it is and i wrote why: you have to assume that he is always active, otherwise welcome to become another kill on zkb.
Name me one competent PVP alliance that also does PvE and that makes droppers being useless.
Oh btw.
Oh, now krabs have to be present 24/7, every single second to secure stuff unless they will meet a fleet that they can not neutralize. If only such level of effort could be asked from gankers…
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He engaged in a 50v1 instead of a 50v50. Why should anyone expect any different result in a 50v1?
Unfortunately you dont. If only you would see that something a sinle bomber with a covert cyno can do shoud not be achieved by afking.
Why not? The effect is purely psychological and only works against weak players. In fact, it doesn’t even need to be a bomber, a corvette with a cloak fitted can do the job just fine.
specially if it´s implemented because someone thinks that krabs should suffer and he does not.
I don’t think that I shouldn’t “suffer”. PvP players have to work for their kills, except when lazy and/or stupid players make themselves into free targets. Farmer trash have the ability to win, they simply choose not to do so. And you can’t balance the game around players who refuse to use the tools they are given.
Heh. And pls dont speak for everyone, specially for PVE players, they can speak for themselves.
I’ll speak for anyone I want. Anyone who thinks that nullsec PvE is at all difficult is an idiot. The only difficulty whatsoever comes from PvP threats, the PvE part is utterly mindless once you buy an appropriate farming ship.
I welcome you to such fleets. Realy want to know how soon you will just stop joining since “you have something better to do” and simply wasting your time in such fleets is more tedious than shooting a keepstar with a rookie ship. Once again “they have to do all the things but god forbid if i have to some extra effort”.
IOW, badly motivated and disorganized alliances will fail and die. Working as intended.
By entering local and shotgunning anomalies? By going for a login trap (but that requiers an effort, right?). Or do they just have to die if you entered a system while they are in a anomaly? Yes, you will not always suceed, that´s why it is called “hunting” and not “farming”.
Utter nonsense. It is literally impossible to enter a system and tackle a target before it can warp out, unless the target is not paying attention and is not prepared to warp out. In fact, the target will already be in warp before you even finish the loading screen.
(And no, I don’t care about your nonsense about bugs with local. We’re talking about the game as it is designed, not things that are only possible because a bug hasn’t been patched yet.)
So you want 100% intel even before you enter a system?
No, I want less intel. That’s why I want local removed.
As for pressing a few buttons, no, that’s more nonsense. Pressing a few buttons will give you the raw data, it won’t interpret the data for you and tell you what it means. It’s up to the player to analyze the raw data and draw accurate conclusions from it, and then make the best decision they can based on a picture that will never be complete.
If only such level of effort could be asked from gankers…
Yes, if only. Perhaps the farmer trash should use the tools they already have and make it happen. The only reason ganking is a low-effort activity is that idiot farmer trash refuses to do anything to defend itself. If farmer trash stopped being trash attacking PvE players would be extremely difficult and result in frequent losses.
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He engaged? Rather someone engaged him giving him no chanse to escape or provide retaliation. Safely nuking a target is allowed but not being able to nuking targets that easy is somehow considere being bad for the game - weird.
Oh, so purely afk activity for attacker is allowed but semi-afk activity for a defender is a no-no. Hypocricy is through the roof. If a single bomber can do that to an entire system than all whining about “but they krab too much” is just laughable.
BTW it is not purely psycological, since, you know, corvette with a cloak will be spotted eventually on login and will be ignored.
I´ve seen how they “work”: they gang up on defensless target and run faster than hyperspatial ceptor when some kind of response shows up. I truly admire Tuskers: they do small scale, and amazingly good pvpers and i´ve never seen them crying “but nerf everything, i can´t kill stuff”.
Your total denial to accept anything that does not fit into your delusional picture is utterly astonishing.
It´s not a nonsense, it´s your unwillingness to make effort. Clearly you are to weak to achieve anything without overwhelming advantage.
Great, let´s also remove some info from maps.
Why i can make quick conclusions of that info and you can not?
You also have your tools, but you are crying to remove defenders tools. People are killing stuff right left and center, but you somehow fail to do so.
Your entire post is just an unending barrage of self entitlement and unwillingness to make effort while other have to be nerfed to the ground. Just wow.
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