i wonder how do you krab with 5 supers, except with cough botting cough
Unlike ESS, MESS (Mandatory ESS) is forced onto you - itâs in every system, like the sun, already deployed.
CCP wants us not only to âprotectâ it, but to sit on it for 3 hours until it releases our ISK.
And then thereâs âreserve bankâ, keys for which is not available. I wonder if they are going to release it in a way so that itâs not available to ratters, only to have us pay an obnoxious price to get our ISK out of that bs, or to have 23/7 vigil on it to prevent someone with a key from stealing our â â â â while we do everything we can to procure a key. Both options are at ânot even going to consider this â â â â â â â â â, so CCP can hear the door when I slam it from the other side.
0 rats killed for the last week, 0 rats will be killed in nullsec until this stupidity is revoked and whoever came up with this is publicly shamed, and, hopefully, fired and blacklisted from game design, goes to some chinese mobile dime-a-dozen games developer studio, and rots there in his â â â â â â â dreamland.
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Keeps probably not.
POS Deathstars, yes knowing CCP
No theyâre not: decreasing character isk/hr by some small percentage isnât going to affect botters because bots are scalable-- the botters will just add another two supercarriers and theyâre sitting back where they were pre-nerf. Itâs individual, actual human players who will be penalized by these changes.
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Get out, Utter Nonsense. I already explained in detail why am I extremely salty about those changes.
- They do least damage to blocs, and most damage to me, who already carried the brunt of disruptions, while for super ratting krabs, many things aint even qualify as disruption.
- They do even less damage to bots, all they have to do is scale up 20% and steal their own â â â â regularly, and thatâs it. I canât throw 20% more me at the problem like they can, so as a player vs bot, Iâm at a loss here.
- They take away my ability to play solo outside of alliance prime time, which, due to covid, became my playtime, by no choice of mine.
All in all, itâs the same as blackout. CCP is telling me to get in a bloc in a super, or die, again. Since this idea is also not getting past you in the last thread: Iâd be there if I wanted to, or if my objective was to be a spacerich megakrab - then Iâd definitely be spinning supers in some safe space. I definitely can do it, yet Iâm not there, get it?
And if someone still thinks blackout was a not bad idea, he just wasnât smacked with the PCU graph in the face enough, needs a compulsory grade school math course, and probably a brain transplant, because current one is gullible enough to believe in CCP blackout damage control propaganda. This time CCP is probably more prepared to fake public PCU data and has damage control measures for gullible people in advance, but guess what, still ainât gonna fall for it.
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I donât disagree about the prior state of ISK fountains in Dominion sov-- but CCP largely dealt with that issue when they nerfed supercap ratting. Human players donât run supers anymore-- only botters deep into remote regions. With the proliferation of blackops gangs now (what began as occasional, small gangs of bombers or T3Cs a few years ago has devolved into omni-present, large gangs-- at busy times, itâs not uncommon to see fleets of 50-100 polarized bombers in these hunting fleets, with numerous instances of smaller groups), ratting in carriers is no longer a thing (again, unless youâre in the most backwater regions). Ratting in BS isnât a thing. The only thing people really do anymore is rat in Myrms (or dumb people in Ishtars) because hotdroppers have covered literally entire regions with armies of AFK-cloaking prospects and bombers that are ready to jump anyone who rats. Ratting is not a real thing anymore-- thereâs absolutely no need for any additional nerfs, yet CCP are doing a compounding pair of nerfs simultaneously? Why?
You must not have much experience flying in populated or contested space. Delve residents have faced constant roaming gangs and armies of AFK cloaking alts for years-- well before the start of this latest war. Yes, if you could arrange to do your PvE in moon-time, youâd sometimes be left in peace, but in any normal-people timezone there are gangs moving around all the time. For the most part, Goons figured out ways to deal with the harassment, but CCP have been hard at work nerfing those too. Not to mention the fact that most people who come hunting for ratters are themselves hyper risk-averse: theyâre not looking for fights, theyâre looking for ganks. If CCP put arbitrary restrictions on how you can play in the vicinity of ESSs, these guys are just going to theorycraft the most risk-averse, slippery gang composition they can. It will probably take them eight minutes. Theyâll zoom in, either take easy kills, take the ISK, or theyâll run away the moment anyone brings an organized defense. There is no reasonable mechanic CCP can implement to force people to get into a fair-and-sqaure brawl in EVE: itâs not a thing.
My friend is making 100-200m a night multiboxing Orcas. Sure, itâs not a metric tonne of isk (and certainly nothing compared to super ratting in years past), but itâs also extremely scalable and involves negligible effort or risk. Unless youâre just feeling nostalgic (as I sometimes do), why would you put all the effort into running around nullsec sites in some expensive PvE ship, having to bridge your ratting ship around to find somewhere thatâs not AFK camped, having to stare at your local window constantly for fear of being tackled by an interceptor if you look away for six seconds, all to make what: ~60m isk an hour now on a good day? To say nothing of post-nerf? Itâs not worth it at all.
[quote=âBlack_Pedro, post:516, topic:277014â]
Iâm sorry, but nullsec is not suppose to a safe farming zone where you donât have to defend your stuff. If your âplaystyleâ for lack of a better word is such you can only live in nullsec by avoiding every fight, then perhaps you shouldnât be there afterall.[/quote]
Can you not see how dumb this rhetoric sounds? This is literally exactly what Goons did with Delve. EXACTLY what you are describing. We hunkered down in a region, maintained a small footprint, brought out huge, expensive toys and actively defended them. What was the response? The Reddit elite PvP whiner brigade screeched and screeched about how they werenât getting enough dank, zero-effort frags because when they dropped their worthless bomber gangs onto tens of billions of ISK worth of capital ships, weâd cyno in FAX and supercaps and kill them or make them run away. So they clutched pearls and cried and wrung their hands until CCP nerfed literally everything in sight: supercap damage application, boson effectiveness, pulled HAWs from titans, nerfed supercap EHP, nerfed cynos into the ground, changed the pirate AI so it would kill drones and fighters, nerfed Rorqual mining, nerfed Rorqual mining again, nerfed Rorqual mining some more because why not. Nerfed anom contents, nerfed anom respawn rates⌠do I need to go on?
Nullsec has always been a âsafe farming zoneâ at least comperable to what we have today. In the ancient times, we ratted in asteroid belts. Local was still there. Ratters still ratted. Ratters still preferred to warp to a safespot or POS rather than engage in an honourable 1v1 elite PvP duel with whatever hostile happened to jump into local. Itâs always been this way. If anything, todayâs environment is better for the hunters-- who now have easy access to covert hotdrop ships and other tools which we could only have dreamed about back in the day. We used to have gangs of people spread around regions in cloaking Vagabonds and recon ships and weâd have to figure out ways of stalking the target to see what they were doing, moving our gang into position through stargates without spooking people, lining up a tackle using a ship with terrible, cloaked-cruiser scan res, and then jumping everyone in and get warped over to the target before the tackler died. These days you what, wait until your friend with the 150 prospect alts tells you something is ratting, get on the blackops, right-click bridge to, press F1? Itâs literally never been easier to hunt ratters.
Youâre preaching the the choir here: Iâve spent most of my time in EVE trying to live in hostile space hunting ratters, industrialists, and everyone else who tries to move around in space. I know how much damage CCPâs dumb game design did to the economy: Iâve been playing since 2006. A lot of people told them at the time that what they were doing was dumb and would destroy the economy-- they did it anyway. RIP, the value of ISK. But Iâd rather them err on the side of âtoo many people farming too muchâ than on the side of scarcity. Weâre heading toward a scenario where nobody can make any useful quantities of money, yet prices remain as high as ever. Meanwhile, CCP are out there slinging marketing speak about the need for âRisk vs Rewardâ and âMeaningful interactionâ and âavoiding troll-like behaviors.â If nullsec is supposed to be so dangerous, why are they letting players spam tetherable structures literally everywhere? Why are they letting jump bridges and Keepstars and stargates all sit together on the same grids, so thereâs nowhere to ambush people? Why is most travel in the game accomplished by jump drive, bridge, or nullified taxiceptors? If CCP wanna talk about risk-aversion and âtroll-like behavior,â itâs clearly they who are trolling us: for a bunch of people who talk mad game about risk and reward, theyâve done a masterful job at nearly eliminating the risk of nonconsensual PvP from their game. The only people theyâre still picking on are the newest or most casual players: those who want to play alphas (and so canât taxiceptor around or bridge or run nullified T3Cs), and those who actually need entry-level activities like mining or ratting to sustain their wallets. I donât see this being about risk:reward at all: itâs simply a money-grab: make it impossible for low-time or casual players to refill their wallets in nullsec. Make their labor a complete waste of time. Force them to spend more real money. If CCP are legitimately trying to rebalance risk and reward, theyâre going about it in the most Fozzie way possible: force a bunch of arbitrary, gimmicky mechanics onto the playerbase in an attempt to compel some kind of tournament-like, vaguely-consensual, elite-small-gang-PvP gameplay. Dumb. If they want more risk in their game, thereâs a thousand other, much more interesting and consequential places they could start. They donât want real risk-- they want a bunch of ISK-poor newcomers to buy more PLEX so they can repeatedly welp more T2 frigates into a perpetual series of compulsory ESS showdowns. Itâs just like Fozziesov: about the illusion of risk, when the reality is a bunch of very average players consistenly slap-fighting one another as they win or lose a series of âbattlesâ fought in frigate and destroyer hulls. Low-stakes, managed âriskâ and cheap thrills. PS: losing more on your dead Harpy than you made all night ratting last night? PLEX packs are on sale today! 10% off and free SKIN!
The joke is gonna be on people like us, who enjoy fighting people, when most of the PvE activity moves to highsec and thereâs nothing to do in nullsecâs barren, trit-less wasteland anymore.
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The MER disagrees with you:
Bounties from nullsec ratting - 1.7T ISK a day is a lot of ticks, and seems to provide very little content to the sandbox. Much of what you say is pretty subjective like most things we seem to be discussing, but what isnât is how out-of-whack this ISK generation is with destruction amounts even today in nullsec.
I think is mismatch of our understanding stems from the fact that nullsec isnât one uniform and monolithic place. Of course there are going to be busier places/times and more active places/times, and more quiet ones and these changes will impact them differently, and themselves might change behaviour.
The thing is, the ESS is intended to change behaviour. Only CCP has all the data, but even with that Iâd expect any changes made to all of nullsec to disproportionately affect some people/places more than others. Collateral damage I guess?
At the very least, you canât know how this will affect the game. Itâs fine to make predictions, but Iâm going to wait and see not only these changes, but the rest that are in the pipeline before declaring the game impossible to play or the resource redistribution a failure.
Lol. Putting 4 Orcas into a belt for 4 hours will get you 100m-200m ISK for little effort but that is a pittance. Youâd make many fold that more with 4 ratters in nullsec even with a 50% nerf to your income you might take, worst case from the ESS, if you dock up to every challenge, and there is one every hour of every day. And that is not to mention that CCP Rattati even specifically singled out Orca highsec mining as something they are looking at rebalancing (read: nerfing).
But thatâs fine. Different strokes for different folks. If you and your friends want to spend your time in-game performing a safe, low APM activity like semi-AFK highsec mining then go for it. Eve is great because it supports all kinds of players and types of play. However it seems to me that highsec is better suited for that low-attention style of play, not nullsec.
CCP seem genuinely interested in tightening up the worst of the passive, scalable income sources these days. Even though it seems normal to us Eve veterans, it really is kind of strange how powerful and tolerated a strategy like multiboxing is when you stop to think about it. Adding another account to collect mostly passive income is by far the easiest and most lucrative thing you can do, and that probably shouldnât be the case.
Not in terms of raw ISK and mineral output. Past decisions (which you can blame squarely on CCP) turned nullsec into a unbridled spigot of wealth that completely, and dangerously outpaces the modest amount of destruction there.
Iâm not going to comment on a subjective thing like the experience of living in nullsec over the past two decades. Sure, many changes have happened for everyone, many aimed at making the experience more âcasualâ, some of which have been detrimental for the game.
At least this change doesnât seem to be another in a long list to make the game easier. It adds some complexity and new element to the sandbox, which sure might get cheesed, but things had become so stagnant and solved CCP had to do something to change things up. People were already drifting away from the game, and the economy was on a collision course with collapse.
I am going to assume almost any change is good when CCP is trying to make the game more interesting and promote interactions and competition until I see evidence otherwise. There are plenty of changes CCP makes I donât agree with, but when they are aiming them at a good place, itâs hard for me to be the bitter vet and mutter âEve is Dyingâ or have the hubris to think I know the game better than CCP with access to all the data they have.
This is designed to make the game better and nullsec more interesting. Things like relative income and thus risk vs. reward can be easily tweaked, so there is no point getting hung up on specific numbers.
That said, complaining that your low-attention income is being nerfed is a valid complaint that impacts you and it should be heard, but I also think that outcome is completely intentional by CCP so 
.
Yeah, this is likely solvable. Eve Echoes, for all its failures showed you can actually move activity to nullsec if you make the income differential great enough. No one seems to play in highsec there from what I hear, because it pays so poorly. Some more knobs will need to be tweaked to make nullsec worth the time and effort, or even better: dynamic systems created that automatically incentivize braver play. But it should be possible.
Even if it isnât and I am wrong, this can always be reverted like the blackout was. I think it is fine to let CCP try these changes, spend some time tweaking knobs, and if they canât get it right, well then they can nerf the new feature into the ground and let the risk-averse and effort-averse farmers make their way back to nullsec.
However, if they get this right, and it even partly achieves their vision, then the game will be much better off than the current status quo.
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Guys, this is just the beginning⌠Get ready for more frustrating changesâŚ
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Itâs not just about wealth creation though, Itâs about investment required to capture/defend that space.
Want to mine in a belt in highsec? whats your investment? 500K for a venture and 2 lasers? Cool. Go out, mine, drop at NPC station, Rats are easy to tank
Want to mine in a belt in Null? You need a much tankier ship so you are looking at a few hundred mil for that. want to be able to drop it off at a station? a few hundred mil more to setup that station. need to own the space? a few hundred mill more for the IHub/etc. Want to get the ship you bought out there reliably? canât AFK Autopilot through high sec, need to have a JF, or a massive escort, so thereâs another 10Bil required. Finally, after spending 10-15Bil, you are now able to start mining, but you could get jumped at any point. Now you also need to defend this space, and since that requires capitals, you need to start deploying Sotiyoâs, want to be able to still use those chars instead of having them sit offline? a Keepstar, with the changes to Quantum cores? youâre now looking at 300Billion to get setup and running and defending and you still havnât actually produced any capital ships yet.
The Reward values in Null sec arnât about making profit, itâs about covering the investment to be able to do it in the first place.
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What kind of mushroom do you smoke? I really want to know! Hallucinogens are bad for your health, remember this. Switch to smoking potatoes, it is safer.
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However this will further discourage real players to Rat in null.
Even Just Increasing the probability of rats shooting drones will solve the problem.
Then find an alliance that matches your hours. âI canât play solo at maximum efficiency in the empire-building section of the gameâ is a feature not a bug.
Iâd be there if I wanted to, or if my objective was to be a spacerich megakrab - then Iâd definitely be spinning supers in some safe space.
If your goal isnât maximum ISK/hour farming then why are you whining about this so much?
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Probably because it is nullsec space that gives rise to the largest and most spectacular battles in which super-ships are earned, built and destroyed. And you always have to be there to take the battle at any moment.
In addition, this is a place that can be called Homeland. This is where I began to live, this is where my corporation is located, and for this I will fight.
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This is you, there is no homeland, no flag, no alliance. You wander where it is more convenient for you and you earn more.
You cannot understand what a corporation is. These are not just words. Our nullsec place, won with the blood of our friends, is our history.
You can wander like rootless dogs and offer others to eat, where there are more scraps.
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What can an empire boast of, lowsecs? Are they writing about you? Have you entered the Guinness Book of Records? You are nobody and are trying with all your might to turn everyone under your ânothingâ.
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The Eve launcher pointed to an ESS information update on CCP TV on Twitch. It was inconvenient for my timezone. Was anything substantive learned about the ESS problem during the broadcast?
And from the podcast it is clear what the CCP is thinking.
The main focus is on viewing Lamas while communicating with players.
Respect is felt.
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Lamas+Ishtar=ĐĄĐĄP+dead servers EVE
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Nothing more than what could already be found on SISI tbh.
The ESS was already down voted on initial deployment.
A good compromise would make the new ESS vulnerable. If players want it in THEIR space, then they will protect it. Unauthorized deployment of structures will be destroyed.
Respect the Sand box.
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