why is soo hard for u add 150% bonus damage for role bonus? for the edencom ships?
The covert ops need a proper pass on the base hull like the t1 explo frigs got. 9 years since they have been touched and i might not be alive for the next chance >< .
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Why are the combat bonuses being removed from the covert op ships? People who used these ships as combat ships were niche and it’s not like keeping the bonuses makes them op. Why eliminate or make harder a niche style of play? Allowing these ships to successfully function in combat promotes baiting and other interesting game play. It strikes me as fickle to just wreck something that’s not harming anyone.
Also Nestor should be the blops logi.
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Because ships that can warp cloaked, take blops bridges, sail through 100km of bubbles like it’s nothing, and simultaneously have bonuses to hunting w/combat probes and getting the kill… might be a little OP. God knows bombers already are.
What, doesn’t every blops group have a few Etana? >.>
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Black Ops, more than anything else in the game, is a series of ships that each have unique capabilities, that when working together as a fleet, win fights deep behind enemy lines. Each ship line has a specific role to play. If you can get a fleet of them that comes together and covers all the roles you are rewarded with the most OP fleet in the game.
The roles are pretty much this:
Covert Ops: Scanning, low HP Cyno
Bombers: Cheap, low HP, high DPS
SoE ships: Bridgable Anti-Tackle (drones go brrr)
Recons: higher EHP Cynos and oppressive EWAR and Neuting
T3C: The only Logi that can be bridged (aside from AT ships)
Black Ops BS: T1 BS (Core DPS and Tank that the fleet rallies around) with the T2 cookie that allows it to jump and bridge.
The only one of those ship classes that doesn’t fulfill their role today is Black Ops BS. A big reason for this is that the fitting and base stats of Black Ops BS are in a deep need of updating (You can think of these as never receiving a stats balance pass since BEFORE CCP decided to do tiericide in 2013). This is bad because it is nearly impossible to get a T2 fit that doesn’t absolutely suck. I am all for fitting compromises, but it’s so bad it forces Black Ops to faction/deadspace fittings. No other ships deals with that.
The bigger reason is that Black Ops BS are bluring the lines between the ship classes. This bluring allows you to achieve the end goal of winning fights behind enemy lines without having to bring supporting ship classes such as T3s and recons. Today in a fleet context (I know solo is vastly different), Sins allow you to not bring T3C logi because they can use their drones and utility highs to provide the logistics for the fleet, and Widows provides ECM so you don’t need to bring Recons to the fight.
I know a lot of people go “What’s the problem with that? CCP should do this more and give the Panther Rapier bonuses and the Redeemer Pilgrim Bonuses so we don’t need to bring thing other than Black Ops BS!” The issue is that it really against the core ideals of Eve ship balancing, and makes this the hill I choose to die on. By giving ship classes a specific specialization, and then the specializations of another ship class, you make a ship class a redundant.
The players complained that HACs could do it all and were pushing other viable ship classes to extinction. I will argue that bridgeable Logi is a specialization that is fulfilled by T3Cs, and Medic Sins destroy this. I will argue that ECM on the Widow destroys the bridgeable EWAR specialization. I will argue that (if these changes go through) the neuting Redeemer destroys the bridgeable neuting ship specialization. This destruction of special roles makes Black Ops BS the unbalanced HACs of Black Ops and brings about the problem: If you can it all, why would you bring anything besides Black Ops BS? That is why CCP should limit Black Ops BS to their specialized role. If they do that then they preserving the other specialized roles, when all used together, provide for a fun fleet that can win fights deep behind enemy lines.
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@CCP_Dopamine While we’re on the topic of making Cov-Ops battleships better, this would be a fantastic time to introduce a new mechanic such as a cloaking field generator module (high-slot). Only Black-Ops battleships can use it and it creates a 10-15km radius field around the battleship that cloaks fleet members while active. This will, of course, apply any cloaking traits to all ships within the field while the module is active, such as reduced movement speed and the inability to initiate warp for non-cov-ops ships.
This would create new gameplay mechanics such as being able to jump a fleet into a system WITH the Cov-Ops battleships and keep the fleet cloaked after the jump (similar to coming through a jump gate, and without having to spread the fleet out to cloak). This will also open up the potential to support other non-covert ops ships in system by providing them a place to get safe in space and also potential for furthering the use of the new mobile observatories. This, of course, would not apply cloaking to any capital ships.
Best comment of this thread thus far.
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Interesting idea. Why Cov-Ops BS and not carriers?
Giving the coverts an extra slot is really nice, I do hope they also get extra fitting to make use of that slot?
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This will help these flagships jump onto the front lines faster to join the fleet in a covert ambush.
Wh in their unfathomably horribly mind thought that BLOPs want to be on the front lines? That is the last thing where the EVER want to be when they BRIDGE a fleet. This is going to cause so many more issues and will not help make ANYTHING better.
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In this post. Covert ops refers to the t2 explo frig, not ships you fly with the covert ops skill.
The prospect is the best ‘covert ops’ tackler atm owing to its base hull. Yes its a mining ship, this is just plain wrong.
The covert ops should be clearly placed as covert ops light tacklers as ‘a’ role. It has little offense now so wont step on the astero much. There is no reason it shouldnt displace the prospect in this role greatly and have the sort of defense you can get with the prospect.
If you remember the rebalance of the T1 explo frig, the base hull was substantially buffed up and some harder explo content is available to it because of this and was also designed for it to do, possibly with the vision of the t2 hull inheriting the strengths. Whilst the T2 version cant do this explo content because it is too weak. Buffing defence of the t2 covert ops would displace the use of the t1 explo frig in some niches where the t1 is better currently, niches that developed while the t2 remained without proper balance pass for a decade, which is the real problem.
TLDR: 1 - buff defence on t2 covert ops so it can do harder explo you need to use a t1 to do, cos it never got the tiericide pass. 2 - buff defence on t2 covert ops because a mining ship is doing its job.
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After some testing, It looks like after a group jump every ship but black ops battleships are gaining full fatigue. Is this intentional?
Covert Ops Frigates
- All Covert Ops exploration frigate combat bonuses have been removed
Could you not? I JUST trained into CovOpsV to fly my helios around and do what I please. This is going to take a whole chunk of the fun out. At least give it more drones or SOMETHING! ffs The Imicus trades better than it’s T2 brother. What a load of hot plasma.
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Perhaps a solution is, instead of making the ECM victim be able to shoot at the EWAR enactor, the ECM ships them selves are very susceptible to ECM. Rock Paper, scissors, paper cancels paper.
To further the paper v paper idea: Any ECM ship can target any other ECM ship on the same grid, regardless of range. A jammed ECM ship can always target other ECM ships on the same grid. When ECM ships target one another, ECM modules perform at optimal range levels, regardless of true range.
was pleasantly surprised when i saw this update…not a ■■■■ up this time
After multiple tests, I’ve noticed that the fatigue reduction you would normally get when taking a Black Ops Bridge does NOT apply when being group jumped by a Blops BS, this is the case for all ships excluding other Blops BS which gets the fatigue reduction as normal . This means that any sub-Black Ops Battleship vessel will get the normal amount of fatigue they would get from taking a titan bridge.
I have to imagine this is not intended, because if so then Group Jumping would be completely pointless as you stack up fatigue way too quickly to be effective over a long period of time. You would expect to be jumping around a lot in a fleet of that nature. Otherwise, the changes are most welcome all around. Hopefully this gets fixed before it goes live on TQ.
Extracting a Blops fleet from a hostile system full of combat probes is going to be really easy now. Too easy. You could practically do it on grid with the enemies! One click and your entire fleet is out of system before anyone can react.
Bridging your fleet back home had the possibility of getting the battleship combat probed and caught in the duration of the bridge. That opportunity will be gone now.
Is there any way a Blops battleship can get caught if it doesn’t jump with the fleet on the drop, yet does jump with the fleet on the way out?
I think safety of this level is an issue.
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You mean people would use this feature for the opposite of what CCP intends it to be used for? 
I am shocketh!
The duration was already real small to begin with on top of not paying attention to probes. You would have to so bad to get caught in that manner that I don’t see much difference of safety TBH.
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Interesting update, not all bad however it is a little bit of a waste of time. Nothing can fight back against a blops attack. Either the blops attack has enough dudes to wipe out the target or they don’t jump. No one is going to commit a blops ship unless they’re certain they can insta-blap it and get out.
Furthermore, the second you enter system with a ship that is cyno-capable everyone scrambles leaving nothing but empty space to attack - fun right? No.
What’s the solution to this? Absolutely no idea. Whatever the solution, it probably goes hand in hand with many other issues with null right now where no one actually fights because fighting isn’t fun, it’s just insta-blap trading ships. It’s either blob or don’t bother.
To sum up: interesting update but in practice blops still will only be used for bridging or doing a “dick-swing” where you’re certain you won’t get caught. While these updates are interesting they don’t fix the core issue that no one fights these days. If only ships were somewhat disposable to encourage people to yeet about and enjoy themselves. Sounds like we need a bit of an indy update… oh wait…
I guess I’ll just watch more and more people unsub.