Do you agree that a bot-test would wreck bots run by botters while they are afk?
In my spare time,when I am so inclined,I articulate period pieces of armor. Its a fun rewarding hobby. The pieces I create are an expression for the sake of expression. Art is subjective in that manner.
I envision a day when bots beget bots. No matter what the force is that makes that so,they will never enjoy fragrance of a flower or the bouquet of a fine bottle of Merlot.
Hope that answers your question.
No. It doesnt.
Your hobby of armor-smithing, nor fragrances of flowers or merlot have fk all to do with bots or EVE.
Wtf is this nonsense.
Returning to topic, the best way to deal with bots is prevention, not remedial action.
You quoting me out of context for your own devices gives me the latitude.
I already answered your question days ago. Furthermore my response does answer the question. You just can’t expand to a point to see it does.
Damn guy get a hobby.
Please don’t make an another attempt to involve me in your cycle of madness.
I have several hobbies, none of which are relevant to bots or EVE.
Nor do I run bots while engaging in my hobbies.
The core problem with bots, is unobstructed uptime while the botter is afk.
The primary purpose of botting, is to run bots while the botter is not at their PC.
This is their Achilles Heel.
Hit them when they are afk and mostly likely to be botting.
My bot-test suggestion does that.
So that while guys like Baba are busy sniffing flowers, drinking merlot, working 20 hr days, sleeping 4hrs or whatever other pigshit he comes up with as an excuse, their afk bot programs fail bot-tests and become defunct.
If only.
If you really cba’d, unfollow the thread. That’s what I’ve done, which you can see by the several days between posts. The topic of this thread now appears to be “salvos has bad ideas” which is the lamest thing a thread could possibly be about. Everyone has heard and hates your idea. I’m not sure why you still have anything left to say on it, especially when you’re just making noise without actually saying anything anymore. Either let the thread die, or let the thread actually be about bots again instead of about Salvos.
It is about bots 
Let’s not forget that A.I. are getting smarter and smarter at a rate that is scary as ■■■■.
In English criminal law, handling stolen goods in theory carries a greater sentence than the actual theft of the goods, the logic being handlers fuel thieves - without handlers their would be less thieves.
Perhaps CCP needs to get tougher on those that purchase the black-market isk, rather than focusing on the actual sellers, thus starving them of their customer base. (not saying don’t target the sellers, but put some more effort and increase the punishment where buyers are concerned, after all, where a seller is identified their is always a paper-trail of where the isk has gone)
I’m not saying jump straight in with a knee jerk reaction as CCP’s inactivity has itself has bred a new breed of player that actually thinks its ok to buy isk and as such CCP must shoulder some of the blame for this - but instead over time, increase the level of punishment of those that do purchase isk, so … bring in a staged increase of punishment, isk removed and 4 week ban, then 4 months down the line to anyone whose caught, isk removed and 8 week ban, then 12 week ban and so on.
Not talking about 1st offense, 2nd offense etc, just a staged increase of the punishment for those that buy so eventually its drilled into everyone if you buy isk you will get caught and if caught, you will get hammered. The current policy isn’t a deterrent and as such players will risk it and purchase isk, thus driving the sellers
PS - still waiting for the Dev posts on this subject promised in October and then again early January post CSM summit
PPS, I’m still seeing a ton of bot buy orders up across numerous items over the Jita market - why are these still here CCP, 8 months and numerous tickets after I told you which items they are on and how to easily recognise them?
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I haven’t forgotten the full title of your thread.
Considering degrees of complicity and their benefactors:
I offer this as an opener for this post.
I put that in a thread knowing it was off topic. I also know,one if not several from CSM read it. I logged in for 3 consecutive days to check my ingame mail. It remained empty. When CCP doesn’t care and CSM in their singular bids for attention also show they don’t care,whats a person to determine?
Which raises questions of perhaps not a care factor,but the willingness to look the other way for other purposes.
Yes there is an inference. Perhaps even a complicity. You “OP” elude to the complicity and I will expand on it. Ignorance is no excuse in law. Almost no judge in today’s world will abide to defer from this axiom. Being said,is a known ignorance or an unknown ignorance a discernible differentiation? Possibly,however an unknown ignorance isn’t the case here. Which one could deduce as complicity.
Reaching such a deduction does indeed have ramifications for the one bringing it to attention of others. Other’s with power or a sense of power. Understanding,your title opener and the preface was genius. Even if you didn’t grasp it. I did. In no way could the contents be extolled in a linear fashion without being subdued. A natural evolution needed to occur to provide an atmosphere conducive to the goal.
What is the goal? Well,that depends on the view point and the inherent placate’s. Those wanting to preserve the status quo will likely wish for dissolution. Those in power will likely wish for expeditious solvency. Abstaining through complacency. Those who stand for change,obviously will continue on the path set upon.
What is my goal? To dismantle a structure in place that in no way provides a positive experience for common player. For one aim. To have a game be fun. Fun is well defined here by the multitudes and has widely varying values. It’s one feature perhaps unique to Eve online. Botting,RMT and those who employ it,whether for personal gain in game or in the real world by way of income,have no place in a game. That also includes those in power who choose to challenge the simple premise of a game.
Following: It is an insidious suggestion to proclaim a game is a game if it truly isn’t. Too often,I read. Keep it in game. When you take it beyond the bounds of the “game” and act in a dubious manner (doxxing,RL threats),the torch lights ablaze from the masses riding bandwagons to cheer and jeer. Until they become the target. Sharks will eat their dead. So,when a game isn’t a game and exist for real world gain in any form,because its the LOL “meta”. Why would it even try to conform to what a game is. Let alone present itself as such. To hide behind such,to play the “game” is a cowardly act. Also that same judge,I referred to would also see it in much the same manner. Real men play “The game” in the real world,where sharks eat their own too. Just sayin boys.
Closing: Botting,RMT will not diminish nor will it be dissolved,until the structure is fortified in a way to where there is no longer a profit or a means to do so. The current structure promotes it and indeed persist because of it. No escalation techniques will have an impact. The only measure to relieve these features will come at a price,one way or another. In the event that apathy prevails an Obol will be dispensed and Charon will go on his way.
Until that eventual,I offer this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjJVSqws0oY
tl;dr
read Baba Ji’s in game bio
Mmm, but this again is a remedial approach, rather than a preventative.
Its more efficient to take out the RMT seller that supplies x accounts, than taking out those x account buyers individually.
Also if you can identify the RMT source, you can follow the paper trails leading out of it to take out the rest of the network, rather than the single trail from a criminal client to the RMT source.
Same thing in IRL, better to take out the drug dealer, rather than his junkie clients.
Im not disagreeing with you, just that I think CCP needs to start taking pro-active preventative measures rather than this old remedial/after-the-fact running around after them that doesn’t seem to be working (at least not efficiently).
PS: Its unclear how hard CCP punishes RMT purchasers. Rumors abound that its only temporary bans and that CCP doesnt much bother to investigate the source or even confiscate all the ill begotten assets.
This will likely never change.
Just goes to show that it is incumbent on CCP to constantly try and stay one step ahead.
I dont see any way to make botting no longer profitable, except by allowing bots to utterly wreck the economy to the point where not even botters bother anymore. This has happened in numerous other MMOs, and is always the final outcome unless bots are prevented in the first place.
What do you mean by fortifying the structure until bots are no longer profitable?
My suggestion is geared at removing practical means to bot, by cutting into efficient bot up-time of botters while they are afk, (which is the primary idea behind botting) via a bot-test system. Botting will not be profitable, if you can only bot for an hour before having to complete a bot-test while accessing the game client personally. Ie: No more botting while sleeping/working etc.
The Achilles Heel of bots, is the botter themself being afk.
That is where/when CCP should strike, and which stands to harm them most.
Lets see you said this to me or about me.
You claimed I was a liar.
You claimed I was trolling.
You claimed I used multiple accounts to insult and refute.
There’s is more,I just can’t bare to drudge thru your spew and stubbornness thru now 900 pages.
You quoted this and followed with a question.
To answer that would be off topic. This thread isn’t about solutions. My latest post was to the OP and I declared my intent by starting with this.
As I stated previous,I will if I am inclined. To outline a solution in the future. If you comprehended my post,you are responding to on this day,you will read where I commented on thread concept progression.
Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use?
This is the title.
I joined in and stated I concurred. In following that given question I,trying to stay in that framework. By concurring and further expressing the reasons for my agreement. Which you have disregarded and digressed by way of full on Neanderthal bludgeoning. You could have created your own thread with a proposal in its own right and merit. Instead you pollute this thread with comments like this.
You Sir are in the minority in ideology,conveyance,expression,and persistently off topic.
While addressing you as “Sir”.
Stop being a London Leather Boy.
I’ll sum it up nicely.
PISS OFF!
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Incredible that you wasted all that time, effort and anger to try and derail so pointlessly and thinking your nonsense ad hominem means anything to me.
At this point you look like a bitter soi-boi teenager ranting at his conservative dad to me.
HTFU and get with the program.
You completely avoided my ontopic post to you:
Answer the bolded above.
You made an assertion, now back it up.
Then, if you have the balls, answer the rest.
You haven’t managed to understand what power is,nor where it resides.
You have none,nor figured out where to find it.
In the future,if you quote me and I feel your post or its intent is disingenuous or just out right trolling,I will respond with this.
“You da man.”
Your post makes no sense, is not relevant to topic, nor answers my question to your own assertion.
I dont care if you dont like my questions, but you are expected to remain ontopic and answer.
Either HFTU or GTFO.
So far, just seems you are trying to derail.
You make assertions, but refuse to defend them and instead repeatedly make ad hominem posts with no on-topic relevancy.
What do you mean by fortifying the structure until bots are no longer profitable?
Answer this.
PS: Just reviewed your post history since your activity began on November 17th.
+90% is in bot related topics, and you have replied to me 3times more than any other poster.
Tbh, you are beginning to stink like a botter.
But did you ever submit the damned ticket with your proof? Without that, ‘ZOMG SOMEONE IS BOTTING I CAN SHOW YOU’ is nothing. It’s spam. No, it’s not going to get a response.
You’re not going to be taken seriously because you’re not behaving seriously. You’re jumping around gesticulating wildly while shouting ‘NOTICE ME, SEMPAI’. That kind of behavior generally gets you only one thing: ignored. It took 12 weeks to 6 months for CCP to respond to a prior ticket? Gosh, maybe that means they were trying to independently verify your evidence. Maybe they were looking into it. Maybe you were wrong.
They’re not going to tell you the results of an internal investigation. Whatever disciplinary action does get handed out isn’t your business. Just like if you get a reprimand at work, that isn’t any of your co-workers’ business. And when you go wildly off-topic in a thread to complain about something else, the rest of us are going to tell you ‘ok, use the proper channels’ and then move the hell on with the discussions already taking place.
Your goals are laudible. Your execution is execrable.
That question doesn’t make sense. People come from different situations, and that has sod all to do with bots.
Account sharing is against the EULA so anyone doing that would be fine to ban along with the botters, so no real issue there.
He wasn’t telling people how much to sleep, he was informing them how much sleep they require to maintain their organs. And is is entirely legal to force feed people for a variety of reasons, again not that this has anything to do with what you’re talking about.
It’s hardly surprising you made a special snowflake forum alt for this incredible show of reasoning.
If I drive by a dentist office and see smoke billowing at the rear of the building. Then go into front door and say “Hey your office is on fire!”. The receptionist isn’t going ask if I have an appointment. Unless of course it is a robot.
Any sensible person will take it seriously.
I don’t require notice of action from CCP. Their actions will be self evident.
When a system doesn’t function as posed,there is not any expectation it will function. If it did,the person’s objections,from the thread I linked would have followed the prescribed normal path to obtain recognition and informed if a solution was possible. They too know the formal path of communication is broken. Thus why it was voiced here in an open forum.
I can’t take you serious because it isn’t taken seriously by those whom you deem functional.
How about you call the fire department yourself, instead of expecting the receptionist to do it.
Atm people are yelling “FIRE” about bots, trying to extinguish themselves and calling the CCP fire department, but either they are understaffed or using inadequate methods to fight/prevent fire.
To make it worse, any attempts to suggest improvements are shot down by a section of the community. I understand disagreeing with a proposed solution for reason x, but I really dont get attacking the source or the intent of the effort to get rid of bots in someway.
Which part of the fact that CCP has ONLY 2 people working on this do you lot not understand?Those 2 people also have to deal with hacked accounts and improving account security for a known fact,who knows what other tasks fall on them.The fact the management wasn’t willing to save the guys from Valkyrie who worked in art department and bring them to EVE or hire new ones after that project was gutted also tells alot.On top of this the community team got gutted because management saw them as an unnecessary expense.The fact CCP actively is trying to build another functioning game for several years tells us they cannot involve massively into EVE development for the return it’s bringing.
I am willing to bet boting is not seen as high a priority as account security for CCP.
In my honest opinion EVE cannot be saved as a project and made to work indefinitely because of the impossible strain the players can put on the server,another issue is the old player base who are extremely demanding for CCP’s current capabilities furthermore this playerbase is proving capable of influencing the gaming press by being extremely vocal and bad press means loss of money for CCP.The potential backlash of their players is mostly why I suspect CCP doesn’t shake up the mechanics too much and are keeping quiet.On a positive side the incredibly long development time CCP has in features added to their game means any competition will take years to even come close coupled with a downright fanatical playerbase who will not give up primarily for fear of losing years upon years of involvement in the game we can say EVE won’t die overnight.
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