Eve Bots - are they a bad thing, is CCP complicit in their use?

[Zircon_Dasher]

@Salvos_Rhoska

Protip: RMT arent paying CCP for subs or PLEX.

They RMT PLEX, isk, materials, ships, characters etc.

The whole point of RMT is selling CCPs property for cash to their own pockets, not CCPs.

Large part of how they source those ingame for resale for cash, is botting.

Example: A botter earns isk ingame, buys a PLEX off the in-game market, and then an RMT front sells that PLEX for cash (for less cash than CCP charges).

Since your statments above apply to everything in the game, a point you explicitly state here:

@Salvos_Rhoska

From the perspective of RMT, PLEX is just another vital commodity, with inexhaustible demand, to sell for cash.

If PLEX didnt exist, all subs would have to be bought from CCP, or licensed GTC sellers.

Since PLEX does exist, botters can farm isk ingame to buy PLEX from players ingame that did buy them with cash from CCP, and then re-sell them via RMT for cash into their own pockets.

The part I crossed out is a false statement, but to stay on the topic of the quote I originally asked you about:

Your argument is merely that by virtue of having ingame assets, which are not soul-tied, CCP encourages RMT?

If so, then thats fine. I agree. I would think you have a wierd understanding of language and you do not understand the words surrounding CCPs original intentions and claims wrt PLEX. But perhaps there is a language barrier or processing issue which I should take into consideration when talking with you

[Baba_Ji]

I don’t think any data can show if RMT increased,decreased,or stay the same with the introduction of PLEX.
There may have been an initial decrease in RMT activity after the introduction,but I only see that as stutter in the motion before a transition. It may not even show on a graph based on monthly input. Though,I don’t think that would be the case wholly due to PLEX needing to accrue first. Accrual may have had to take months due to the fact it wasn’t a disposable commodity initially. Meaning it wasn’t a surplus commodity and was held tight to the owner. It was a good incentive to create content. Oh! How many cries were shouted when a gank yielded PLEX.

So to base a conclusion on data may not actually be empirical for the sake of argument. Might be misleading.

RMT existed before PLEX. It existed after PLEX. It still exist today. Those are facts and need not be based exclusively on numbers.

Something to consider.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Baba_Ji

Something to consider.

PLEX was implemented to shore against RMT.

PLEX has since existed for years and undergone many significant recent changes.

Im not questioning CCPs choice to implement PLEX years ago.
Im stating that it is traded by RMT just like anything else ingame that can be sold for cash.

Example: Run bots. Earn isk. Buy PLEX ingame. RMT that PLEX for cash (at a cheaper price than CCP).

[Baba_Ji]

I’ve basically concluded my thoughts on the title. They are contained for the most part in this thread. The minutes were released as promised. I read them.

The obvious next step if one were inclined to go further is a possible solution. Contained in a separate thread as its not relative to this one wholly and may warrant its own ISD willing.

Which takes me back several weeks to one of my initial post in this thread.

@Baba_Ji

Using a minimalistic approach will yield better results. By stripping back the successive layers until the problem no longer exist will eventually show where the true problem lies. Only by then can you address the identified problem and proceed with a solution.

Hard choices almost never find resolve without sacrifice.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Baba_Ji

Using a minimalistic approach will yield better results. By stripping back the successive layers until the problem no longer exist will eventually show where the true problem lies. Only by then can you address the identified problem and proceed with a solution.

I disagree.

We know what the problems are. They are deep in the core.
The layers have already been stripped and the remaining matter boiled down.

All that remains, is what solutions are best, and if CCP is willing to implement them.

[Baba_Ji]

@Salvos_Rhoska

I disagree.

We know what the problems are. They are deep in the core.

The layers have already been stripped and the remaining matter boiled down.

All that remains, is what solutions are best, and if CCP is willing to implement them.

Nice contradiction to affirmation.

Your pearlescent glow is a wonder to behold. You do realize what you just said is the same thing all the while starting with “I disagree”?

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Baba_Ji

@Salvos_Rhoska

I disagree.

We know what the problems are. They are deep in the core.

The layers have already been stripped and the remaining matter boiled down.

All that remains, is what solutions are best, and if CCP is willing to implement them.

Nice contradiction to affirmation.

Your pearlescent glow is a wonder to behold. You do realize what you just said is the same thing all the while starting with “I disagree”?

You posited we have not yet pealed the onion, via simple changes.

I said we dont need to do that in layers of change.
We know the cause/issue, and its at the core.

I disagreed with your premises, and drove to the heart of the rot, which all of us, except you, already acknowledge.

If you disagree with the above, state your case concisely or gtfo.

[Aaron]

I can see what they mean when they say the thread is Salvoshed. LOL

[Baba_Ji]

I did in fact do as you suggest. I won’t deny that. You claim to know and perhaps so. However,I have yet seen you to offer a solution that is viable. One that doesn’t promote other problems. I have yet seen you to offer anything really of substance. I can conclude you don’t have a solution or are afraid to present it in your own thread. In fact if you do and have backing in the form of “we” I don’t see how this is a dilemma for you. You claim to have known this for a long time,yet you bring nothing to the table for discussion save maybe discourse. In some ways it makes you complicit to the problem. Imagine that!

If you choose to follow instead of lead that’s your choice.

Lastly,I don’t respond to ultimatums. Especially one’s not backed by power. You should know that by now.

@Aaron

I can see what they mean when they say the thread is Salvoshed. LOL

This could be a wikipedia heading as it does meet the requirements.

Salvos for the moment you will have to addle spar with another. My time in this thread has ended. I look to other prospects that lead to solutions. I just hope when I declare the sky is blue a person such as yourself won’t have the audacity to disagree. You know microns and all that.

[Zircon_Dasher]

@Baba_Ji

I have yet seen you to offer anything really of substance.

In Salvos’ defense, this is the GD section of eve-o forums. Substance isnt really a hallmark of this venue

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Baba_Ji

I did in fact do as you suggest. I won’t deny that.

Wrecked.

@Baba_Ji

You claim to know and perhaps so.

Wrecked.

@Baba_Ji

However,I have yet seen you to offer a solution that is viable.

That you dont see them as viable, does not them make them in-viable.
Ive addressed and discussed many solutions aside from my own (which Ive argued at great length).

@Baba_Ji

I can conclude you don’t have a solution or are afraid to present it in your own thread.

Wat. See above.

What is this ■■■■■■■■, man.

Put your cards on the table, or stop derailing.

This is about bots, not how angry you are at me.

PS: Inb4 Aaron nonsense.

---

There is nothing in your post related to topic.
Why is that.

[Vokan_Narkar]

Not sure it was mentioned but im fairly certain there are now noctis bots as well.

I found one noctic that was bumping himself *over station trying to warp for at least 1 hour, classically duel and chat invites were disabled. After that hour I was waiting near him with my alt I brought suicide gank ship and killed him. He didn’t dock or anything but he instantly warped away with capsule.

I’ve hear the noctis bot is part of the mission running bot “package”. Considering that in same sector I see another noctic on dscan or at least in local everytime I fly through there there might be more of them.

[Aaron]

Is anyone from CCP available to leave a response to the suggestion of a “punkbuster” type of solution? I have gone over all other possible solutions.

I’m pretty sure you guys could even come up with a “BotBuster” program yourselves, if you did face legal privacy issues then your view would be that your doing it to preserve the game as it was intended to be in order not to destabilise the ingame player driven economy.

I’ve come to realise this is an important issue which is hard to fully address, If anyone from CCP can’t respond then I will fall back on logic for it is logical that you will explore every possible avenue to its logical conclusion and develop a solution for this problem.

I for one do not want large amounts of isk and loot generated illegally in Eve, and I would be happy for you to analyse my active RAM so I can contribute to making Eve cheat free.

The botters do not call the shots here, you do, if you used a “punkbuster” type solution and the booters don’t resub then yes you will have lost revenue but gained a bot free game. I’m not down for botting being a necessary evil, I want the true depiction of Eve no matter how hard it is.

[Aaron]

Hmmm, see this concerns me I was just thinking if there was a “NoctisBot”, logic was telling me there must be due to the way the Rattingbot works.

[Salvos_Rhoska]

@Vokan_Narkar

Not sure it was mentioned but im fairly certain there are now noctis bots as well.

1. This indicates botters already scraping the bottom of the barrel and how brazen they have become.

2. The peculiar things about bots, is that they dont really matter as long as the player is present at their PC, despite it being illegal.

3. What really matters, is bots running content while the botter is afk for hours on end, such as asleep, at work etc.

4. Many people still dont understand the importance of 2) as compared to 3).

Botting is all about the afk time.
Botting is all about earning, while not playing the game.

[The_Sane]

I don’t generally go very far from where I live in 0.0, so while I obviously hear how prevalent botting is I don’t really see it for myself. Today I found a direct wormhole to JX-SOA, in that system there are 6 Nightmares blatantly botting. Actually seeing it for myself is incredibly disheartening, especially when looking at zkill shows these bots have likely been active for a year and I know I can’t be the only one who has reported them in that time.

[Makshima_Shogo]

To get rid of botting you need to attack them at their weakness, Bots are great at doing repetitive task’s so the answer lies in those task’s adapting and changing over time the bot’s will not be able to adapt and change with it and they will end up dying. Eve is filled with repetition: incursions, missions, mining, anom’s the list goes on. If let’s say you are running anom’s for an hour then a random rat will warp into your site and tackle you, if you don’t kill it in time the rat’s fleet warps onto you, the rat will not effect local so the bot won’t know to jump out, but a player will see it and temporarily jump out of the site, the rat will warp off again and the player will get back to doing what it’s doing.

[Keno_Skir]

@Baba_Ji

I just hope when I declare the sky is blue a person such as yourself won’t have the audacity to disagree.

The sky is violet, not blue. Bots or something.

[Lfod_Shi]

I dunno if CCP is complicit, but according to Eve reddit a major corp (Grrr) is.

[Aaron]

Hmmm, I like your idea. the only flaw I can see…I think we have to assume the bot programs are also updated inline with any updates Eve has.

So…If Eve Devs changes the way overview works for example, then the person who designs botting software will make a change to their software, they upload it to a central site where their customers can download and apply it.

Bot AI seems to look for events; like someone jumping into their system prompts them to dock. so, they know how to get a bot to “watch” local.

I’m not sure if they can get a bot to prioritise targets or read and understand the names of rats and what type of electronic attack they deal. Your idea will stop bots for sure if it was applied to all missions/combat sites.

Also, the bot stories i hear seem to involve dreadnought cap ships for ratting, i don’t think there is any set of rats that can take out a properly fit dreadnought.