Sandbox? You carebears aren’t trying to play a sandbox MMO, you are trying to play a “grind endlessly for no purpose” dirge.
Stop grinding. Stop farming. The isk/hr is not worth it.
All you do is complain and act grumpy because you are so unhappy and jealous. Go ask your neighbors for aluminum cans, cash in 5 million isk for every deposit. Go apply for a job at Wal-Mart, attend new employee orientation for an hour, cash out big with a billion isk.
No sensible person has any sympathy for your self-imposed plight and sense of entitled poverty. The Venture in a 1.0 is no different than the dreadnaught in a C6, you guys all just need to get wrecked, drop your loot, uninstall, and let people who enjoy the game play it without your constant whinging on about how unfair it is that you can’t get paid minimum wage to mine in highsec.
Well that’s what poor reading comprehension will do for ya, I guess.
Plus, it’s funny to see the pretend-PVPers who focus mainly on high sec activity because they need safe, weak targets to hunt talking about “no reason to be in high sec” and “move to null!”.
(PS: I don’t flag posts, and the frequency and type of posts that get flagged recently make me wonder if someone is just trolling the mods. But anyways, not my problem.)
We’re in the midst of a intelligent conversation on why the numbers are dropping…and then someone finds a post that they dont like so they call it ‘off topic’ Then I commented that flagging posts is getting to the point of absurd.
The reason the concrruent average is dropping below 20k has to do with some game play elements but also has to do with a totally inept forum moderation system. A more tolerant approach to discourse would go a long way.
We all know community is flagging posts they don’t like. I think allowing players to express themselves in constructive ways is a great way to increase the concurrent average.
I think the mods either need to restrict flagging ability access, remove flagging for repeat pretenders, or at the very least make it visible who flagged what so people can judge for themselves. (Or maybe that’s already visible and I just don’t know how to see it.)
Rekindle: it’s players that flag posts, that pops up an alert for ISD mods, who then check the post later and decide to remove or unflag it. It’s not mods flagging things, they post when they make changes.
I will speak from my personal experience, and I will tag @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode again because he is such a reasonable fellow, and I want him to know where I’m coming from, in that I truly want what’s best for the game and hope CCP understands what makes EVE worth playing (and what doesn’t achieve this goal).
I came to this game from World of Tanks, where I was tired of endless battles for no purpose. It was a grind without end. I liked the fact that EVE has empires and societies, that players can build, and they have to defend and work together to succeed. However, in order to take pride in such effort, one must also face the challenge and difficulty of an existential threat. I just don’t care if my tanks explode, because they simply reappear undamaged. Only in a hostile environment, can battles and wars truly mean something. Well, that’s what was advertised…
I soon discovered that everyone else was AFK. They were all hump sucking drones. My carebear mentors were a high sec ‘tycoon’, and a nullsec ‘death dealer’. The people in rookie help chat gave me TERRIBLE advice about mining and PvE and hauling. Everyone was chronically AFK. Their primary goal was to minimize all interaction with EVE, in order to maximize their isk/hr. The industrialist was unhappy because he had to log in endless alts and queue up endless orders. The nullbear was unhappy because the VNI spinning made him nauseous. Eventually, after producing billions of unsold tier 1 frigates, the industrialist just disappeared. The nullbear eventually got his rorqual, and was disappointed to learn it wasn’t any different than a venture. He never logged in again.
I thought, “Is this the endgame of EVE? You just go AFK and eventually log off forever?” I couldn’t understand why the nullbear, a dentist for crying out loud, couldn’t decide to stop drilling rocks, perform a root canal, and cash in some isk for PvP. I spent week after boring week, warping around highsec, desperately searching for any interesting content. I went to low sec, traversing empty systems one after another. Whenever someone tried to kill me, I just warped away! When I tried to kill someone, they just warped away! Easy, and dumb. What was the point of anything in EVE? I was about to quit the game. World of Tanks had meaningless content, but at least it was content.
Fortunately, I found James, and read the glorious words of minerbumping.com and the CODE. Why, the point of EVE is not to grind away in drudgery and mindless AFK labour. The point of EVE is to lay claim to territory, and obliterate everyone who refuses to obtain a mining permit. That’s fun. These carebears don’t want fun, because it is a distraction from their pursuit of isk/hr. They will never enjoy the game, or stick around, and they will threaten to quit (or actually quit) at every possible change that fails to protect them from content. They would be happiest if you just gave them isk for logging in and out, without ever undocking or doing anything. That’s their idea of a ‘sandbox’.
As carebear protections spread across the galaxy, whether in the guise of nerfs to AWOXing or nerfs to Byzantine highsec trickeries or nerfs to bumping, or buffs to invulnerable citadels or invulnerability buffs to grotesque capital class mining ships or buffs to isk/hr which reward bot aspirancy, these protections simply make it harder and harder for any new player to find enjoyable content. What’s a new player gonna do? Gank an AFK orca? Duel the battle rorquals of Tama? Suicide on the umpteenth nullsec keepstar? Warp safely through every single wormhole system without ever experiencing a single moment of memorable content, such that one’s only achievement was enduring endless tedium?
Nuke the carebears, blast them with neutrons and triglavians and scary wormhole people, and new players will gladly come and help shoot them all. I’m proof of that. Meanwhile, you don’t have to worry at all about the in-game economy. If mining becomes more dangerous, then the price of ore will increase, and you will get a better type of miner who isn’t AFK and who actually generates meaningful content with elite mining skill. Besides, scarcity generates conflict, and conflict is the very essence of content.
I think @Rekindle is right. The new Skilling spree is an attempt to bring back people as my friends , high sec miners who dont log in more when recon squads appear.
BTW, Someone say me he go to renew his subscription for his main, but wait to OCTOBER to hurt CCP september numbers. Recon Squads lost players and good will for CCP in many former player,s not only past subscribers
Your post was pretty good for the first two paragraphs.
Unfortunately then it fell into a series of exaggerated stereotypes based on minimal experience, a complete misunderstanding of what ‘sandbox MMO’ means, and a total failure to understand the difference between ‘bad player behaviour’ and ‘bad game design’.
That last point isn’t so bad though. After all, CCP doesn’t get it either.
Thanks for chiming in with your highsec mining alt.
Highsec miners may say they come for the ice and ore, but I give them what they really need: Purpose, dignity, structure, order, guidance, leadership. They ask what I am “saving” them from. I save the miners from themselves.
-James 315
You guys don’t want a ‘sandbox’. You just want someone to hand you a blingy sand castle, and you want it to be free and continuously growing in size, with minimal effort on your part.
What you really want is an EVE themed screensaver.
You’ve wandered way off track here, since you’re basically making up some sort of “high sec carebear casual farmer” opponent in your head and replying to these imaginary opponents, rather than things actually said in the thread.
Let’s get back to a time when your posts were relevant to the topic on hand:
You clearly haven’t read my posts in other threads (that’s fine, nobody reads everything), but your point above is pretty much the gist of them.
EVE is currently designed to support boring, repetitive, simplistic PVE play, and asymmetric ‘unfair’ PvP play which regardless is still slow to find, fast to end, and typically unsatisfying in mechanics. Players may find the end result satisfying (“I got a good drop” or “I killed a weak miner yay!”) but the combat mechanics themselves are not typically engaging (“Wow that was a really fun fight!”).
The PvE is so dull and simple that people end up botting it or AFKing it. The PvP is generally slow to find, easy to avoid (if you’re paying attention), and unbalanced.
My issue with high sec is that it’s boring and not a good introduction to “what EVE is really supposed to be about”. (I say supposed to be because as you pointed out earlier, what EVE is advertising is not what they are actually providing.) My issue with null is that it’s boring and too easily farmed for mass profit and it’s also not “what EVE is really supposed to be about”.
CCP needs an EVE re-design that focuses on active play, scarcer resources, more varied play styles, and conflict that is much more accessible, repeatable and engaging than what they have now.
The failure to provide that re-design is why the online numbers are low and falling.
You’re free to continue to rant about “high sec carebears wanting everything handed to them”, but just keep in mind that you’re off topic and tilting at imaginary windmills.
Meaning, what precisely? Let’s hear your specific proposals regarding high sec mining and ganking in high sec. How do you propose to ‘vary’ these play styles in order to improve the game?
I see you making a lot of bland generalized statements like “active play”, but I don’t see any specific proposal, or even an explanation of what is or isn’t ‘active’. I notice that you complain about “unbalanced” PvP, and make comments such as “I killed a weak miner, yay!” Do you feel that high sec ganking is “balanced” or “unbalanced”? Have you ever killed a miner? Do you feel miners are weak, or disadvantaged in highsec? I certainly don’t think orcas, protected by CONCORD, are weak - so I can’t help but conclude that you must be a carebear, if you feel orcas in high sec do not already have enough protection and defense.
I will give you a specific example of a proposal I have to help balance the game and nerf mining. I think miners should have to play a minigame, like the explorers play ‘minesweeper’, except in this case the game will be Tetris. The ore will flow into your cargo hold, and you have to fit it in. If you aren’t careful, you can’t get a full load. If you place fiery kernite next to plagiocase, your ship will explode.
You can agree or disagree with my proposal, but that is a specific idea - whereas you simply call for undefined changes and then act as if you have been personally wronged when somebody points out that you appear to be a closet miner who isn’t willing to actually specify what they believe, and prefers to engage in vague contradictory hyperbole accompanied by snarky comments toward literally everybody.
Look, Karak, I get that your need to hunt noobs in safespace makes you blind to facts
That sure sounds like something a miner would say.
the continual stream of “PvP forevah, no mercy for newbros!” on the forums has never been much of an indication of awareness of any sort…
Still sounding a lot like a miner who wants to turn EVE into a safe carebear themepark…
I’ve posted many times that EvE is not actually a PvP game - it’s a mostly-PvE game
You really do sound like a miner…
I would tattoo this on Hellmar’s forehead if I could. Ganking, PvP, wardecs yadda yadda are only surface expressions of the underlying issues, and they aren’t key drivers of player base changes (IMO). They are the result rather than the cause of boring game design
I mean, you are the one who writes this stuff.
EVE’s “trust no one”, “all scams are fine”, “abuse the noobs” and “every kill is a good kill” environment makes it worse.
I mean, are you sure this is the right game for you?
the whole ‘non-consensual PvP in high sec’ thing is only of importance to lame PVP wannabes who need fat weak dumb targets to hunt in a space where they themselves are safe
This is definitely miner rhetoric…
Non consensual PvP was a mistake.
I honestly can’t think of a more carebearish thing for you to have written.
“PVP is everything” folks focus on a “too safe high sec” as the core of EVE’s problems. It’s like they aren’t capable of doing actual PvP
I mean, you write a lot of nonsense, but let’s hear about your great heroics and PvP stories. Why are you posting on an anonymous alt, since you would surely be more credible if only you would link your elite killboard to awe and amaze everyone?
You and many other players confuse ‘PvPers’ with ‘players who need weak targets in high sec to get their jollies, because they can’t handle actual PVP in low-sec or other areas’. EVE has always had this issue. I’m gonna call these guys ‘Weaks’ because that is the only kind of target they can handle
This is a very clear, and snarky theme with you. You really really don’t seem to like high-sec ganking, do you? Why is that?
there isn’t a lot of entertainment in being your easy target
You sure you aren’t a miner? Do you really expect me to believe you are actually an ELITE PvP warrior, who has dedicated themselves to championing the cause of helpless high sec miners?
high sec botting isn’t much of a thing,
What is your experience as a miner ganker? How have you come to have such firsthand knowledge of whether or not high sec miners are botting?
Farmers who have no interest in any war or PvP, ever. They’re here to farm, not fight. If you only reward the big bad wolves, pretty soon you run out of sheep.
You are clearly calling for better rewards for miners, and more safety for the miners. Right?
Can you just post the killmail from when you got ganked, and then we can look at it and try to figure out what mistake you made, and try to help you to stop blaming and hating gankers for griefing your ‘playstyle’?
Nearly half of your posts involve calling CCP developers “idiots”, lecturing everyone on how you know all about game design, and complaining endlessly. You are apparently not even paying to play the game, maybe it’s just not the game for you?
That’s a ridiculous amount of effort to put into taking fragments of sentences out of context in order to build an imaginary opponent to joust against. Wouldn’t it have been easier just to comprehend what I wrote in the first place?
You are more than welcome to hunt down and nuke every mining vessel on every alt I own. Have fun with that!
You are more than welcome to hunt down and nuke every mining vessel on every alt I own.
So it’s confirmed, you are a bot aspirant and a habitual mining offender. Did I take that out of context? I don’t think so. I just think it’s important to clarify where you are coming from, in order to understand the ‘changes’ you wish to see in the game. It sounds like you are an alpha miner (I’m pretty sure I read a post where you stated this, and yet you want more safety from griefer bullies and highsec gankers who aren’t “real” PvPers.
You also want more safety from evil nullblobs, and more reward for the “sheep” so that you can become fatter and enjoy more rewards, but you don’t want the “pay to win” meanies to attack you. Does that sound about right? You don’t like all the isk that omega nullbears make, because you are jealous, and you think an alpha miner deserves more of the pie - right?
I just don’t think I understand how the game benefits from allowing alpha players to succeed with minimal effort and no investment. They aren’t paying CCP anything, they are just playing the demo. You clearly hate the game, as you repeatedly state that CCP is run by incompetent individuals who understand “nothing” about game design. Why do you keep logging in to a game that you think is managed and run by morons? I might disagree with some of CCP’s policies, and am sometimes frustrated by the UI and slow development cycle, but I hardly think that CCP is run by idiots and would not go around insulting them as you do.
Why do you feel entitled to ask for any buffs to your ‘playstyle’? I understand that you aren’t having much fun, but technically you are only playing the demo. The game really isn’t supposed to be something that you grind away with on an alpha account. It’s not bad game design. It’s intentionally encouraging you to do something else, like buy PLEX and gank miners. I honestly think you’d be a lot happier.
I want you to go out and gank 50 freighters, and 50 orcas in high sec. In lieu of that, you can use a thrasher and gank 500 pods in Niarja or Uedama. Then come back here and tell me if you think those players deserve more protection and more rewards. As James wrote, you need to walk a mile in His shoes, before you are qualified to criticize His CODE.
Thanks for chiming in with your highsec mining alt.