Before that there was just Yulai. Before my time. Actually they could have returned the markets to Yulai once they worked out server performance I think.
This… is the market regulating itself. This is players finding the profit and moving accordingly… to Jita.
Jita has been the beneficiary of “The Law of Accruing Gains”. I’m not sure if that’s an actual thing. I just made it up to describe what I’m about to talk about. You’ve heard of the Law of Diminishing Returns? Well the LAG is the same thing - but in reverse.
Jita was already the largest of the trade hubs due to the fact that Caldari was the most popular faction to play because of the Achura bloodline having the highest stats (I pulled the Achura stuff out of my ass, but I suspect that was a huge contributor. Caldari is or has been the most popular faction to play though).
So over the years, every time a person couldn’t find something in Rens, but were able to find it in Amarr or Dodixie or Jita… that was a little nudge towards them not using Rens anymore. So Rens and Hek were the first to fall into irrelevance. Dodixie fell next, because Amarr and Jita were the 2 most popular and had the easiest trade route. But then CCP, in their wisdom, severed the trade route and Amarr died.
So now you just have Jita. In the age of hauling alts, Jita is the most optimal solution.
The market has regulated itself and players have made the accordingly profitable decision.
LowSec has been poppin’ for the past few years. It’s where the real PvPers and risk takers go.
Brainworms.
As an aside personally I would like to see relations between the Empires deteriorate to the point that their borders are all LowSec systems. And I would like all the NPC corps replaced with Militia corps.
CCP is pretty much our gods. As they set the bounties the sandbox can be played with. (Please don’t misquote that)
It has always been that we have minor say in the direction of New Eden.
EVE online is a product, and we are customers. This is not a co-op development game with CCP and players. CCP can do pretty much anything they want to EVE online. Idk what hill you want to die on I am just stating facts here lol.
History has shown that CCP rarely bends to player backlash. We have had cases where player protests have caused them to reverse course however. It’s pretty much adapt or die and HTFU when patches drop in this game.
I am in favor of a dynamic tax system for some pretty simple reasons:
a) it strengthens lore/immersion: Even in a futuristic sci-fi environemnt, the participants (in this case: the empires that have somewhat competing economies, would try to strengten the business done within their borders. So no matter if by adapting sales-tax or other things, one thing is sure: The top economic scientists and advisors of the Amarr Empire, Gallente Federation and Minmatar Repbulic would see the dominance of Jita as threat to their own economies and would try to give traders and other business enterprises some kind of motivation to relocate. It would be completely believable within the EVE lore if we had different tax rates in different regions, depending on the amount of trade done there.
b) CCP has implemented mechanics before that have the goal to de-concentrate players and reward people to spread out among the universe. Dynamic Bounties, better Agents/Payouts in lower security systems, SystemCostIndex just to name some. A Dynamic Tax Rate would fit in to this scheme and it would imho even help the game to have more people active in the other empires. Having a market that can compete with Jita (at least somewhat) is a really big driver behind this.
c) A tax rate calculation based on total trade done in a system is somwhat similar to the SystemCostIndex we already have for industry. It would not defy K.I.S.S. design to do it for trading in a similar way. It just has to be transparent and balanced. Means the ‘penalties’ in Jita shouldn’t be so high that you simply can’t do lucrative trades there any more.
d) It gives players more choices, which can be profitable or can be bad. More decisions to make, with different possible outcomes are great in my opinion. I want to outline that nobody wants to take something away from anyone. He who likes to trade in Jita can still trade in Jita. If people want to migrate to other hubs for tax savings, that is also a player-driven decision. Offering options is not ‘forcing anyone’.
e) I really doubt there would be huge impacts on item availability. Even right now, the majority of things can be bought in the hubs, of course for sometimes quite a higher price at the smaller ones. But thats just normal. And it might get better and cheaper at the other hubs with a dynamic tax system. I absolutely doubt that it would lead to items not being available in Jita any more for the average player.
yes i have a “special” attitude but i´m not a forums troll if you were reading then you would have noticed this but ok …
sure xD if you trade more in other tradehubs where prices are higher as in jita because of less supply and more demand youre profit will be … less xD looks like a real extert
but you arent a developer former you cant see as a developer ! it looks like you are a liar and its only your personal point of vied oO
the reason why only a few ppl sell stuff in other tradehubs is that jita has been there for years ! its an established market and “everyone” buys and sells their stuff in jita ! it has a good conection to all placed in new eden so its easy to reach ! if you lower the tax in other tradehubs will occure in a minor supply upgrade but it doesnt change that much ! why ? because you can get everything you want in jita ! and ppl are lazy…
the majority of items get traded in jita !
the majority of BPC´s got traded in jita !
the majority of Contracts are in Jita !
so now you have everything in one place, you want to split it up that you ( in worst case ) have a completly split of the marked which raises all prices ! you cant buy any item on one place and you need to travel between all tradehubs because you want to buy a lot of faction stuff !
in best case you only see a switch of tradehubs ! lets say you have half the taxes in amarr as in jita ! then maybe ( i cant believe it ) trader will go to amarr because they dont need to spend all of their isk to taxes ! but then its the same problem as we have now … amarr has the lowest tax and now you want what to fix the player created problem to supply other tradehubs ?
so its quite obvious there are literaly 0 points to different the taxes !
Dodixie is the home of several of my newer chars. Thus far, it has had everything they need. And the risk of being ganked on docking/undocking is far less than Jita. It’s actually an excellent home base that supplies everything a char could need and is relatively safe.
In fact, several of my older chars have bought and fitted ships there…the Nightmare, Leshak, Drekavac, Apocalypse and other ships I use in Wrecking Machine were all bought and fitted at Dodixie and not at Jita.
Everything could start drastically changing in 4 days with Faction Warfare potentially expanding into high-sec and wreaking havoc. The other three trade hubs outside of Jita may become safer (and thus more desirable) as a result.
CCP has implemented mechanics that balance the activities. What that means, is that people can get more income by choosing activities with varrying initial cost, and activity costs. Those activities produce services, money, or resources. For example, before CCP screwed up the structures cores and industry taxes, you had to choose between over used structures with interesting rigs and high index, or your own structures in backwater system which you had to replace , or NPC stations with no rig and average index. Now CCP made it so you have either public structures with high index, or NPC stations with high index.
The market(s) is a different system : it is what gives a value to those activities.
If you want to make using several markets more valuable, you should not modify the markets, but the activities that allow markets to be valuable. Typically, if the cost of moving stuff increases, then it’s more efficient to buy and produce locally rather than buy all in Jita.
People don’t want to trade in Jita.
They want to trade where it is valuable to trade. They want to acquire good where they have the most chance to acquire those goods at a correct price. They want to sell where they are the most likely to find buyers for the goods they produce.
Making dynamic taxes would mean that a buyer could not find a correct place to buy his stuff.
Your proposal is going against the goal of a market : it is to make supply and demand meat, not make it a chore.
The question you should ask yourself when you have a proposal that impacts the market is : how does it impact the economy ?
It it makes it more difficult, more tedious, or more volatile, to acquire some goods, then your proposal is bad.
Yeah, and with different market taxes/fees, traders could chose when and where to sell stuff basing on the average taxes there (in addition to trade volume and hauling effort). Just like a producer opens the starmap looking for a system with low SystemCostIndex, Trader can check the taxes in Jita, Amarr, Dodixie, Rens for example in realtime and make the decision if it would be worth it to deliver to a smaller market if they can expect to have a lesser tax/fee there. I don’t see where that contradicts your statement. And I am still convinced (and you have said nothing that would point in an opposing direction) that CCPs goal is to spread out players among the universe and strengthen player acitivity in the outskirts.
Why shouldn’t he? You will still have prices to check and you will still have a price history to make a good estimate where buy/sell prices will land. It is really not like a dynamic tax system would bounce taxes/fees between min and max on a daily basis. It would probably just result in Jita having max-taxes/fees for a long time, then the other trade hubs having slightly reduced taxes compared to now and minimal tax/fees for all non-hub systems. And then only see very miniscule changes over quite some time, unless another market really skyrockets out of the blue. Nothing a trader can’t deal with.
Because that’s your proposal ! To force people to sell on spread areas, so if people sell one day the hull, one other day the propmod, and one last day the weapons, then the buyer will need to move on those three places !
This proposal is at the opposite of a market’s goal and usage.
The only effect is to make the game worse.
People ALREADY can find better deal if they are willing to go out of Jita. THEY DONT. Your idea is to force them to do something that they don’t want to do.
That’s still exactly what you want to achieve.
Claiming people have an alternate choice when that choice is bad is dishonest.
Putting taxes higher in Jita than elsewhere is forcing people out of Jita.
That is what you want to do. That is what you propose to do. If the result was not this one you would ask for more.
No it isn’t. Even if you claim that a 100 times over. Jita Market won’t deplete over it and nobody suggests a system where trading in Jita isn’t lucrative at all any more. Even with a dynamic tax system Jita would still be the by far largest trade hub in the game for a very long time and yes, you would still get your ship hull, propmod and weapons on the same day (even at the same minute) there anytime. But you would have a higher chance to do that as well in Amarr, Rens, Dodixie, Hek then, and that makes the game better in my book.
only to give ppl more choices is not "forcing them "
if the effort is worth to do then its not forcing ! nobody said you need to do it ! you still have the choice and if you have a choice its not “forcing”
So you claim that with that change, people would still provide the same resources in Jita but would ALSO provide the same resources on many other hubs ?
That’s delusional at best.
“You can give me your wallet or I shoot you. You see I’m not forcing you, you have a choice.”
rly … stupid example of “changing taxes”
nobody force you to fly to other tradehubs for trading ! and if you dont do it nobody will shoot you … makes your example extremly idiotic
