But you need things worth fighting FOR in highsec for that to matter.
Which means you need mechanics that give benefits to corps that are meaningful enough to be worth fighting for.
I very much doubt that maths is accurate. It certainly doesn’t match my experience with flying in fleets. And doesn’t account for warp time. And if you are in cheaper ships it takes longer also. So… Yes you get more missions done, but collectively your reward will be less than soloing. Assuming you are capable of efficient soloing which isn’t that hard to get to for missions.
Then again, none of this matters, since you will keep moving the goal posts on this argument, because your head is stuck in null. Like you are already doing, trying to point at a bunch of things that have nothing to do with corps as mechanical advantages for corps.
Some days Arrendis, you do get quite dishonest with your arguments, especially when it comes to balance ones.
Can you give me an example of a benefit that ‘the null lobby’ has shot down? Because what you’re describing is what we’d all like to have, but don’t right now.
So, lemme just point this out while you’re accusing me of moving the goalposts:
You said they’re being denied mechanical benefits. I asked you which ones. C’mon, man, gimme examples. I’ve given you examples of mechanical benefits they’re getting, just like they get them anywhere else. So lay it on me, man. Answer the freakin’ question already.
So going by the new lead Devs plans, intentions and hopes for Eve as detailed during his appearance on Declarations of War podcast - He has already failed.
Doesn’t matter what he does from here, without being able to meet his key goals - The whole thing fails.
Nerfing income for all - The richest groups [Empires and those in them] remain unaffected because there is still no reason for them to use up stockpiles of isk and other assets. Talking about T2 goo - when the empires have enough stockpiled to build ships for the next few years and still be able to crash the markets if they chose to.
Just how long does CCP plan for the “scarecity” era to last? If it goes on too long it forces those without the resources to survive to look at alternatives (other games), end it too soon, nothing changes as the Empires still hold the overwhelming control of everything.
It matters little how you reshuffle mineral distribution when the largest groups have years worth of resources stockpiled and the manpower to deal with any “reshuffle” and not bat an eyelid.
CCP Rattati needs to stop and take a good hard look at what it is he hopes to achieve and how he will get there without killing off game play for thousands of players not aligned with an empire. So far the little guy is being shown the door once again by CCP’s lack of understanding about the game and how it is played.
I have spent many years building my play style and adapted to everything CCP threw at me - Until now, I was a miner/manufacturer 1st and a pvp’r 2nd. I paid for my main and one alt (both super/titan pilots) and plexed my other alts. I never made enough to have a massive bank prefering to make enough to plex and fly what I wanted for pvp. I looked at returning after the ore nerfs and worked out I would need to spend upwards of 50 hours per week just to maintain my play style developed over years. People have said, just unsub your indy alts and just do pvp but that isn’t why I play eve. I liked my indy lifestyle, it was challenging it was rewarding - PVP is just PVP, you win or you lose depending on the day, all in all it is pretty uninteresting when you have nothing to fight over. I know I’m not alone, many of the guys I’ve played with for many years either no longer login, have gone alpha (turned highsec gankers) or only login to chat, never undocking…
FYI; No you can’t have my stuff so don’t bother asking - Don’t hate, I’m not saying my this is the same for everyone but it is my reality.
Many of us have spent years pointing out repeatedly that almost everthing in Eve is only interesting when there is a reason behind it. That Eve core magic is that what you do is meaningful, and has an impact on the shared universe. Yet, like a thousand papers cuts, the calls to make things easier or to drain the competetion from the game took their tool, and we’ve reach the point where something needs to be done.
Will resource scarcity solve the issue and give these reasons to fight again? Probably not just on their own, but it is an important part of creating some conflict drivers and objectives to fight over. Clearly just flooding the game with wealth so that losses are meaningless and everyone feels like a winner has failed, with even many players motivated mostly by wealth accumulation giving up, as what is the point?
A balanced, sustainable economy is a necessity in a persistent game like Eve so CCP Rattati and team had no choice to do something. I’m not going to claim their execution is perfect, or will even work - I just don’t know - but they had to do something.
Playstyles change, and people change. While totally out of CCP’s control, current events have made this and ideal time for more radical change like this when the churn of players is the highest. While new players will still probably see the existing issues with a power gap CCP has yet to solve, they won’t be tied to some economically-corrosive playstyle and some will take to and thrive in the new economic/game conditions.
That means some players will be leaving, although I’d wager those leaving now because of a nerf to their resources-generating activites are the prime candidates to be back in 6 or 12 months when (hopefully) the fruits of these painful changes ripen and new opportunities are added to the game. A more sustainable economy that rewards player efforts is better for almost everyone, including those pouting the loudest today because their comfortable activity has be made less comfortable.
s’ok, I don’t want your stuff, I have way too much of my own
And I wouldn’t say it’s ‘not bat an eyelid’. Most of our line members don’t maintain huge stockpiles. They’re normal gamers, they’ve got about as much foresight as the dude in an FPS who gets sniped because he’s ‘hiding’ behind a pillar about half as wide as his ass.
But that’s where leadership needs to do our job. It takes a fair amount of time, effort, and focus to try to keep up with all this and come up with ways for our line guys to still make money and have fun. When I say we’ll be fine, I don’t mean we’ll be able to just ignore all this. We won’t. And we’re not. But leadership’s willing to put in that time and effort to focus on finding new ways for our guys to make money.
I admit, it would be nice if everywhere in null was under the same pressure to adapt, but it is what it is. Not everywhere has NPC null systems for dreads to base out of. And obviously, people like Olmeca and Mar5hy aren’t going to go targeting the supers still ratting in the Drones. Such is life, and we deal with the terrain we find.
I think Rattati’s got his work cut out for him. I think he’s come into this with one set of grand ideas, and they may not all survive through to fruitition. But I think he’s working hard, and trying to learn on the fly, and he’ll adapt and revise his plans… just like the rest of us.
I think your time frame is very, very optomistic.
I’d be looking at at least two to two and a half years - We’ve seen over and over that CCP rushing through well intentioned changes usually leads to ■■■■ further down the track.
As I mentioned, the Empire builders can sustain their play styles for years so unless the plan is to confiscate stockpiles from the major groups, there is at least a 2 year period where CCP literally has to starve EVERY player before they can even start to build the sort of economy they want (that everyone would like).
For years to come the blocs (empire builders) will control pretty much all aspects of the game, from mining and manufacturing to the markets to any pvp content - all they need to do is shutdown the markets, lack of ships for sale leads to higher prices, higher prices leads to less content if you can’t make isk to pay the higher prices. What has been done to date only solidifies the power the large groups have over all aspects of eve.
For me, I can’t make enough isk to support pvp without dedicating many more hours to the game. This is something that just doesn’t fit with my lifestyle.
Sorry, that wasn’t directed at you. It was for the usual crowd that put it out there.
I agree, I just think he has started from the least desirable position. The game would have survived another year until he had taken the time to address real issues and devise a plan that doesn’t punish those not in mega groups.
I’ve said for years the largest groups (most of which I have been part of at one time or another) have too much power over the game. Nothing that has been done to date goes close to addressing this and that is where the whole thing falls down.
I don’t want to see mega groups broken up, I just want someone at CCP to find a way to address the real issues directly instead of just killing off individual and small group game play. So far Rattati has failed to do this.
Sov needs a rework, structures need a rework. Once those two major stopping blocks are addressed, THEN you start rebuilding the economy.
Starting out by removing the ability for smaller groups and individuals in NUL to thrive or even survive is a mistake.
Too big to fail certainly applies here… because CCP did two things that would have toppled the cart if they’d stuck to it. Blackout…and the NPC attacks on citadels, Triglaves carving out NPC space or at least targeting the most populated (or iron mountain holding) areas in NS would go far to throttle excessive exploitation. Maintenance Fees on supers and titans, and local delays (a simple 10 second per -0.1 would allow more destruction) (perfect intel really does mess up the game–far too much API info available). CCP needs to add a lot more chaos
Pretty much this yea, if anyone complains that pvp will happen more often in an environment of excess then they need to go visit the test server and see how dull it is having everything for free.
The next great war;
CCP vs The Imperium
No thanks, I have no love for Goons and co but would be the first to side with them if CCP tried to destroy them with NPC’s.
BO wasn’t an answer to anything aside from identifying massive botting groups in areas players had been telling CCP about for years.
Yes perfect intel is something that halts many a fight BUT if there were reasons for the player run empires to fight, intel or not they’ll fight.
The ONLY intervention CCP should be doing is coming up with reasons for the mega groups to risk and lose all (or at least a decent chunk of) those supers they’ve stockpiled without that loss entailing them losing everything.
Supers and Titans are just space pixels (space pixels going boom is fun), they should NEVER have been allowed to become as important to Sov as they have.
CCP needs to stop with the “Chaos” and get back to game development.
As I’ve said before - Nothing CCP does will matter if the current state of Sov isn’t changed.
The only way I’d really consider coming back to the game after all these years is if reinforcement timers are removed (worst idea ever implemented in EvE) and supercaps (the mass profileration of which came from CCP ignoring botting for years, favoring EULA-breaking groups that gained a big advantage by cheating) are severly nerfed, if not removed, from actual PvP duties.
So you want the only thing that stops everything you built being burnt to the ground as you are in bed removed?
Or are you one of those people who never owned anything but just attacked other peoples stuff, because that’s the only way I can see reinforcement timers being removed ever benefiting you.
There’s a few options no one has really considered here. CCP buys out all the trade hubs and resells at prices they think are appropriate. This would be a disaster with the current market. Another might be selected seeding of ships/ammo/modules that they think are overpriced at prices they think are right. The most drastic possible option (super nuke) would be to eliminate player buy orders so we sell everything back to CCP. The last option, while drastic would in the long run most likely reduce isk in game, as well as bring sell orders in line with what they want as it would be a form of inflation control as CCP would have absolute control over prices given for everything in eve. This last option would only work by killing off all other isk rewards (bounties, mission rewards, etc) but would be a sledge hammer method of fixing the economy by and large.
What’s the point of having a “fixed” economy in a game that no one wants to play anymore?
Seriously, though… if they kill off all bounties, mission rewards, incursion payouts, trig invasion payouts, etc… you will likely lose 90% of the non-mining PVEers in this game. No PVEers = less prey for PVPers.
Everyone says Eve is a PVP game, but you don’t want to lose pve people. Actually wasn’t advocating that option, but if you want the fastest and most sure way to balance out the economy, that would probably be it. Kinda like the old cake saying, you can’t have it and eat it too without consequences. I do think we all agree that the current status quo though is not working.
You’re assuming that people are krabbing mainly for reasons other than to afford PVP ships and skill injectors to fly them. Considering that there isn’t much else to do in the game, you probably overestimate this.
Not to mention that the more ship prices go up, and player buy prices decline, the harder it is for people to go shoot the ships they have. Very few actually produce the ammo they shoot. Most just buy it on the market and go. However that said, this does also encourage more production in line with increased (overall) CCP buy pricing, and may be something to look into. Having CCP buy might actually become a player retainer in that regard
I PVE about 11 months of each EVE year and PVP at most 1 month of each EVE year. Some of my PVE cashola goes to PVP ships, most of it goes to PVE ships and to savings, though.
I know I’m not alone, but I also know there’s plenty of people who would PVP 24/7/365 if they had the time IRL and the ISK in-game to, but there’s also people who would prefer to never PVP and never experience non-consensual PVP upon them… ever.
Takes all kinds.
Now, I don’t have the stats and figures CCP does, but I’ve heard that the bulk of this game is still miners and missioners. I don’t know what the balance between those two camps is, but… while I primarily personally mission for fun, not for ISK (made my ISK with incursions), there are many missioners who clearly do it mostly for the ISK. Removing all ISK-making from the game is going to remove them from the game.
I’d personally stay until I exhaust all my wallets and assets, which could ofc be converted into PVP mode at the drop of a hat and then spent out in space the old fashioned way.
