The problem is that’s not the way the game is coded, and changing that is likely a massive undertaking.
Player A goes suspect
Player B Shoots Player A and both get an engagement timer with each other
Concord uses the engagement timer to recognize that Player A should not get Concorded for shooting back at Player B.
If player C doesn’t require an engagement timer to rep Player B we go back to the old crappy exploitable neutral logi.
Essentially a new timer would need to be created for “law enforcing” or some crap like that. Notating that Player B is shooting at a law offender and can be repped by any third party and Player A can shoot at this person without being concorded. However, I forsee that code getting really ugly.
The old crappy system is far superior to the new one.
If you have the bigger corp/alliance you automatically win now. Since there is no way to even out the numbers in PvP. The new one also affects PvE in a negative way.
Most of these issue exist ever since the first implementation of Crimewatch 2.0 - The fact that it’s a lot of work is not an argument after over 5 years.
If you have more bodies you will likely win, yes… that’s kinda the point. Defenders can have additional corps join the war to help them and that’s the counter balance.
PvE is not impacted in a negative way. As long as no member engages in PvP there is no change in the function of Logi. If a member engages in PvP that modifies the formula, so the fleet needs to prepare for it. Does it suck? Sure. However, the ability to retaliate against thieves in HS has to have set (and often complicated) rules to avoid exploit by the player base. The current itteration of the rules was heralded by the majority of the player base as a huge and long needed improvement.
Yes, the defenders can. But you can never ever punch up. There is no way to get back at the big guys. That was possible before. The story about cooperating with wartargets to kill neutral logi was one of the greatest experiences. Also it was an amazing fight.
The Neutral Logi change removed a ton of fights from the game. Crashing those parties was always tons of fun.
I would have no problem with CCP removing them, but the way they did it, was to the detriment of the game. You don’t fix something by breaking it at various other parts.
Fix Crimewatch, then adjust the mechanics. Not just remove one thing and ignore everything that breaks from that change. I’m not a fan of half-assed changes.
We’re well outside of the topic at hand at this point, so I’ll refrain for anymore back and forth about neutral logi. While you disagree with the change the developers listened to years of feedback to make the change. Maybe someday they will see your difficulty in properly addressing suspect looters in Invasions. Till then, you should probably just keep the focus on addressing ninja salvagers which at this point you have no proper recourse in fighting.
LOL. When was the last time you know that happened to someone? This, if it ever happened, which could very well be the case but I see no way to confirm now, would obviously have been a bug and have long been fixed already.
But even if it had not been fixed yet, you can certainly expect CCP to reimburse any loss caused by it. Saying otherwise is ■■■■■■■■. CCP clearly states you cannot get CONCORDed with safety set to green, so you may definitely bet on being reimbursed if you ever lose a ship because of that not being the case.
What is nonsense is that you would use such a bug, which even if it had not been fixed yet is extremely unlikely to happen in the context we’re talking about here, to justify you cannot defend your loot in Invasions.
You’re so obviously making up excuses to justify your whining and unwillingness to adapt and deal with the issue using the current game mechanics, simply because you happen to hate the change made to neutral logi for other reasons that might have their own merit or not.
Yes, of course… IF this bug was never fixed AND you happen to wait the full 15 min timer to engage the suspect at the precise moment the timer is running out, so you may be hit by it…
That’s a big IF, don’t you think? Sure looks like a sad excuse to keep whining about your unwillingness to deal with the thieving issue using the current game mechanics…
Oh, but don’t let that stop you from keep telling me how stupid I am, how it’s me the one unable/unwilling to understand, how it’s me the one whining here even…
Haven’t done a major or world ark, but did dozens of minor conduits a couple weeks ago and was putting 5 warrior IIs on rats manually or assigning to a fleetmate from my Noctis, getting payout ISK/LP, still never took aggro in a semi-tanked Noctis. Too many higher threat ships on grid, especially with logis using cap chain and repping constantly (2 or 3 basilisks).
You are once again not getting the point. You are more dense than compressed ore.
This has nothing to do with the “bug”, simply the timing of people getting the LE. If your reps and capchain turn off while 150+ ships are shooting one of your party members, and you can not reactivate them because your drones are still on their way. You will lose that party member.
Run these sites, then talk about them. You have no idea what is happening, you have no idea how these mechanics work. You just spout some half truths and you certainly don’t make an effort at understanding what others are saying.
On the topic of the getting CONCORDOKKEN’D by your Drones thing. Safeties prevent you from issuing commands that concord you, sicking your drones on a suspect is not a command blocked by green safeties. The timer running out before they arrive is the reason every decent player always activates a module when engaging a suspect. Safeties were never intended to call back drones for you, so I do not see this as a bug. It will not always get reimbursed. Especially if you know about the mechanic and still die to it. You’ll maybe get it reimbursed once on your first loss, that’ll be about it.
Dropped Modules won’t get reimbursed so it’s still a net loss.
In a fleet with you, I wouldn’t be surprised if theres 5+ people dying to GCC and the rest just getting popped by the NPCs, sounds like fun.
The issue has never been unwillingness to deal with thieves, it’s that the mechanics put all of the risk on the defender and none of it on thethief. Even if he gets podded he only loses a free corvette.
You refuse to understand the problem, I’d tell you to stop acting like an idiot. But I know you’re not acting.
IMO, there’s nothing wrong with drone mechanics allowing you to send your combat drones to a suspect… what’s wrong is the safety system allowing those drones to begin shooting the target when they finally MWD over if the suspect’s 15 mins ends and he is no longer a valid target. Pressing “f” on him at that point would yield no result if one had just launched their drones, and clearly it goes against the wishes of the controlling pilot.
On a semi-related note, a couple years ago at the Luminaire Christmas party, a friend, now-corpmate, of mine was putting his battleship’s rep drones on various other people in fleet. I had my all-8-colors-firing Abaddon and an alt of mine in a Corax orbiting it tightly start a duel so that I could put on a laser show all on my own instead of firing at distant (out of megapulselaser range) jetcans or whatever and my friend immediately went suspect and was bumped/burned down before he could warp off. His rep drones should have stopped repping like a logi cruiser’s RR modules would have just automatically turned off… but they didn’t, thanks to shoddy drone mechanics/safety mechanics in that similar case.
His ship was restored by CCP within a day or two because that was NOT behaving as intended. Of course, if that had happened since the wardec/neutral logi changes, he’d have been concorded immediately instead of gone suspect in his battleship. So if that can still happen, it’s an even worse bug than it was before.
It seems that the roaming Triglavian forces are warping into the conduits from today’s patch. Was just doing a minor and got “ambushed” by the roaming Triglavian forces (4 BS, 3 BC, 6 Cruiser, 5-7 Frigates, 3 Anchoring Destroyers).
Luckily for me, they warped on site beacon (0 KM), so I had enough time to GTFO before I got overwhelmed.
Anyway … I just wanted to congratulate CCP for living a dream - they finally developed content where no one can tell you if this behavior is bug, or a feature. Well played.
EDIT: Forgot to mention that this was foothold system.
Well thanks for the hint, this is unfortunate and a little bit foul play. I was thinking about putting my Skiff into a closed World Ark to harvest that super ore with Morphite, to calculate the ISK/h.
They’re swamped with the bug reports. I don’t care anymore. Either someone from CCP will read this, or they will not. I don’t care because they don’t care.
The point of the post was just to inform the players in order to get more feedback (e.g. how often does this happen). In theory, they finally fixed the roaming forces AI since they never warped to “Sealed\Active …” beacon.
The best is when a feature introduces potentials bugs, that sometimes are present, and sometimes not. so until you make a vid of yourself being subject to bug, nobody trusts you.
They can’t be reproduced, they can’t be debugged, but they can make your life ■■■■.
Roaming Fleets warping in sites once more confirmed. Could not recreate this in a Major yet, but we can already confirm increased damage output as well as repair amount from Renewing Type enemies.
If roaming fleets can now also enter the Proving Grounds, then doing them will be a real pain in the posterior. So far we can not confirm that the DC’ing, after a World Ark site is done, has been fixed yet. We do not expect it to though.
Any information regarding the ongoing tweaking would be much appreciated, Hek we’d gladly help you do it. Challenging content is fun, but the Risk/Reward ratio has to be acceptable. Given how all of the Invasion materials have basically become worthless and with just the few types of mutaplasmids dropping them having oversaturated the market immensly running them does feel not very rewarding.
I’d gladly see a few stronger ships appear in these sites than those tons of normal ones. The Zoryas feel very weak. They have no special abilities apart from Neuts/Scram and they are probably only about twice as tanky. The weird switching between their propmods also makes these ships appear very weird from time to time. Going from 2.9km/s to less than 1k to back to 2.9k within a single tick. Are they trying to phase through some walls flash-style or what is the reason for this behaviour?
Would assume also duos get into trouble, if a roaming gang with a couple of battleships warps in.
I hope this is a mistake, else it would skew the risk/reward fully out of balance. There is already nothing to get for DPS role, who takes most of the risk. Hint: move the valuable salvage to loot, in order to fix it.
