I had an order for 44,944,444.99
I tried to change to 44,944,444.44 to undercut someone
eve changed it to 44,950,000.00 and now my market order is BELOWa bunch of people, instead of on top.
Im aware of the “significant numbers” ■■■■■■■■. but holy ■■■■. give me some kind of warning. an error. a “hey im about to modify your market order and screw you over, are you sure you want to let me do that?” yes/no option?
no. just silently jack the price up to whatever eve system wants, and charge me 3mil for the privilege. no warning. no error. no confirmation. nothing. thanks.
This is offensive. I typed in a specific number. If you’re going to automatically adjust it to something else, you have to ■■■■■■■ ask me first. You dont just change it without asking me first. Thats my market order not yours. dont adjust it unless i tell you to.
EA or someone has infiltrated CCP and is just sabotaging this game. CCP 5 years ago never would have pulled this crap. they would have been extremely careful about implementing market changes. But whoever is working there now just doesn’t care, or is just outright malicious.
OP is correct - this is offensive. A simple notification via in-game mail would have fixed that, given its a matter of regulation, but doing it this way is simply infuriating the first time it happens.
Furthermore, it yet again takes away from advanced market practices, such as price showmanship, though that was already near-obsolete, as you’re forced to buy the cheapest item, even if you’d rather buy one that’s more expensive but has a price aesthetic that’s more appealing to you.
As an example, I’d rather pay for the price OP posted, rather than an unimaginative 44,940,000.00 (or one undercutting by 0.01). Personally, I tend to use 1337 or other number variations that I’d find appealing and others, such as OP, would likely also enjoy (thus, contribute to their patronage).
There’s also the issue of large orders (1B+) forcing the seller to differentiate themselves in increments of 1M. While I’m hoping profit margins to never be quite that slim, it does raise questions of fixing prices, as you rapidly approach a point where it becomes less profitable to undercut each other and more so to ask for the exact same price, thus actually lowering competition. Never mind reducing the effective profits of anyone selling capitals by a statistically significant amount.
However, I’m not fully against this change - but rather its implementation (though, imo, as prices go over 10M and up, valid tick increments should become more accommodating). As a returning player, I never got the warning and it quite vexed me for a short while - even then I wasn’t quite sure if it was a bug or an intended change, which is why I googled the issue and ended up, among other threads, here.
Lastly, if CCP really wanted to crack down on rampant market undercutting, why not simply add to the 5-minute timer that’s already existent? They themselves stated that’s the biggest hurdle to such practices - increasing costs isn’t a terrible idea, but it won’t fix the issue. A several-hour timer, however, likely would go a much longer way towards their desired result.
The Broker Relations patch went live almost 2 months ago. If you make a mistake on the market - it costs you a relist fee. If you make a mistake on the battlefield, it costs you your ship - seems perfectly fair to me (and yes, I have made the same mistake!)
Yes, this is offensive. And what’s more, it makes me want to stop playing. Why? Because, boy am I eager to continue playing after this crap cost me a few hundred MILLION ISK in fees, simply because nobody bothered to add some form of indication to the UI. The feature isn’t the issue here. It’s the half assed implementation of said feature. Yet, at the very same time, we got a dumbed down version of the wallet. Because reasons.
Don’t get me wrong - I’m glad the .01 ISK BS has somewhat died down but jesus, can you not f%(§ over your regulars in the process? As OP stated, this is something I’d expect from EA, Ubisoft or Activision Blizzard.
I don’t see what would constitute a “half ass implementation”.
CCP gave everyone plenty of time as a warning, making a blog post, tweets, facebook posts, launcher updates, etc. all warning players about the change. And they did exactly what they said they would.
Can you point out, specifically, what’s “half assed” about the implementation?
Alerting users to your bad design choices doesn’t make these choices any less bad. The way things are, the UI simply assumes that you know about these changes and their repercussions. Whatever your background as a player. Newcomer, Vet, whatever. And if you don’t, well, that’s your problem, I guess.
It doesn’t end there, though. Even now that I do know about them, I still occasionally match an order by accident, throwing away ISK in the process. And that is, by definition, bad design.
Why did I call it half-assed, specifically? Because it is. Because stuff like this is easily prevented if you just think about it from a users perspective. There is neither a clear indication of what’s about to happen (as stated by the other posters - and no, changing the number on focus-loss is not enough), nor is there any form of confirmation, once you commit to the transaction. It goes through right away. In combination, this is, again, bad design.
And if this behavior is okay, then why do we still have safeguards on pvp-engagements, why do we have them on contracts? Are you sure you want to attack this guy in high-sec? Are you sure you want to buy this one item for 100 billion ISK, when the value is actually way, way lower than that?
Good design makes it hard for you to bad things. whereas bad design does the opposite. You rarely notice the former.
Please, explain to me how this has anything to do with ‘getting better’ at the game. How is this a skill-related issue, exactly? Going by your argument, people also don’t need airbags in their cars - they should just get better at driving, eh?
You are not explaining how it is a bad design, you are only explaining how it hurts you. You keep repeating “bad design” but that’s just a circular argument : if you don’t ASSUME it’s not a bad design, then it does not become one.
I’m totally fine with the value being changed on focus loss. Yes, it is enough.
I agree that it could change the input field borders to orange, to notify it has changed.
There is no reason to cancel the transaction. You are supposed to know by now how it works, and if you make a mistake, it’s all your bad.
Completely unrelated. All I see is rant, rant, rant. Grow up.
Yes, I did explain how it hurt me. To provide context to my argument. To make it understandable, why I’m saying, what I’m saying. It’s not that incomprehensible of a thing to do and I’m pretty sure you’d do the same any day of the week.
First of all, the topic of this forum is “issues, workarounds and localization”. Well, I take issue with the fact that any first year design-student knows better than to pull ■■■■ like this. I take issue with the fact that I lost a lot of ISK not because of me taking a risk, not because of me losing a battle or going afk in low-sec, but because of shitty UI design. Something neither you or me have any control over.
As such, I’m with OP on this and stated as much. I then defended my point of view - by explaining my reasoning. Both of you, on the other hand, have fallen back to “git gud” and similar nonsense. Very impressive.
Yeah, you might be fine with it. You might not care about such things, but I do. Other players might. Returning players probably will - as soon as they notice the rather large sum they just donated to the taxman. Because at the end of the day, not everybody reads these forums, the patchnotes or has friends playing this game.
I also never said anything about cancelling the current transaction. I said that a changing value, especially of that size and especially since not all of the digits do actually change, is not enough to indicate anything. An orange border is not enough, if not shown immediately after entering a new value. And even then it’s questionable at best, because there is exactly zero context on why the field suddenly turned orange.
Your entire argument is basically “you’re supposed know”, which is very easily said for somebody who already does.
Because that’s what you want to see, all grown up as you, no doubt, are. It is related and if you actually read my post, you’d have understood why:
The game does have a pvp-safeguard. It’s purpose is to keep you from accidentally engaging in pvp-activity - because doing so can cost you in numerous ways. You can disable it but by default, it is on.
The game also has numerous confirmation popups for contracts and other things, which all ask you to confirm your action. Do you really want to spend that huge amount of ISK on one PLEX? If so, fine. But there’s a question. You can disable it, but by default, the game will ask.
That is good design, because at no point does it assume anything about the player, be it “skills” or intentions. It provides options and allows for the player to choose.
This feature, on the other hand, omits any of that:
It assumes that the player knows about these new rules.
Rules that, by the way, change mechanics that have been in game since god-knows-when.
It just does whatever, potential losses be damned.
This is bad design. You cannot teach your users, that you will ask for confirmation - only to then stop asking occasionally.
And I honestly, honestly fail to understand how this is so incredibly hard to understand. It’s an effing principle, followed by thousands of people in various fields of design. But yeah, obviously I’m just salty.
But we already understand that you are butthurt.
It’s just obvious by the sheer amount of rant you provide.
more rant. We got it, you are butthurt.
No, you lost isk because of mistake. Because you tried to enter a value that was incorrect (why ?). That’s all about it : you enter 0.000000 isk, the game sets it to 0.01 instead.
Yes there is zero context about why. you can ask in the help channels why it is orange., and why it is changed.
No it’s not.
My entire argument is : you keep ranting and that won’t help you. as I wrote, I agree that things can be enhanced.
No, because that’s all you show.
No it’s not. There is not relation between having a security to prevent basically suicide you, and having a security to prevent you from entering a value that MAY be incorrect. There is just none.
Because it’s just you ranting.
OK here is my little experience : almost the same thing happened to me. I made a ticket and asked a GM to reimburse me, explaining that there had not been a warning about the change of value. I was told to cancel my order, and then was reimbursed of the broker fee. Which I was fine with.
Of course the GM could have told me “nope dude learn to read” and I would have sit on my … 4B ? Because yeah I should have double checked after entering the value, but when you do like 100 orders per day you just can’t afford.
I understand you appear to be the one with “butthurt”. I laugh at your inane comments which show nothing more than a childish attitude of “look at me I’m really cool”. No you are not. You are rude and obnoxious. It is amusing to watch your “salty” attitude. Grow up. You are mildly entertaining at best. Now flag this post.