Exanding Outlawry status

(Nik'oli) #1

Hi. So, I have a thought on how to take care of undesired, rampant ganking, help out the alphas, help out the omegas, and make a whole new set of interesting game mechanics in one move: expand the outlawry system to include corporations. Under this system, once a corporation/alliance of players exceeds -10, they are “kicked” out of the Empire. Their wallets are sealed off and purged, buying or selling directly to or from them can’t be done, and they have x number of hours to leave Empire space for the deepest, darkest hole they can find. Joining the corporation would incur the same penalties, as would maintaining a -10- for x amount of months. The beginning players are now happy, as they can mine more in (suspected) peace (fit tank), haulers can haul in (suspected) peace. Null sec remains null sec, which is caveat emptor across the board. No problem there.

Now, why would the pirates agree to this? Well, it’s simple: the ships that they would be granted, and granted exclusively, in exchange for being evicted, would be built, from the ground up, to be the best suicide ganking ships designed, which makes sense from a fluff perspective. Were we in real life, they would not be concerned about death, as even if their pod breaks, they wake up in a new clone, AND you don’t need them to build tank, as you’re not planning on surviving CONCORD intervention. So, everything can go to weapons and damage.

As far as the rest goes, bartering could still be done, and hauling to a dead drop in null sec would take care of most of the resupply problems. So, the only real problem you’d have would be approaching the target(s), which I’m not sure about and would be open to input on. Thoughts?

(Brisc Rubal) #2

I don’t think we really want to be this heavy handed in ending ganking. In fact, I think it unlikely that we really want to end ganking at all. It is one of the few things that ensures that there’s always some risk in high sec, especially now that war decs are being revamped.

Plus, I’m not sure how much this would help, given -10 already is basically a death sentence if you hang around too long.

(Nik'oli) #3

I…don’t even know what to say. Well, in that case, what about a Q-ship design? I’m not necessarily looking to stop ganking, just make them think about it a few times, as well as making it harder.

(Maekchu) #4

Yes, one is indeed speechless at how horribly bad that idea is.

Your hate for suicide ganking just oozes out of that OP. It is in no way close to an objective rebalance of anything.

Objectively speaking, highsec is more safe than ever especially with the new wardec rules. Your proposed changes would not only affect suicide gankers, but lowsec PvP’ers as well. Removing all isk from all corp/alliance members and “moving” them all is the easiest thing for any spy to exploit (in addition to just being a stupid mechanic).

I love the reaction once you realized a CSM member didn’t want any of that.

(Do Little) #5

Destruction is essential in an player driven economy where nothing wears out or goes obsolete, if anything we need more - not less! There also needs to be a balance between risk and reward - if you could mine or haul goods completely risk free those activities would have no value. In many games, you sell the stuff you harvest or make to NPCs but, in Eve the market participants are other players.

A look at the MER shows that 7 of the top 10 regions for destruction are in empire space - which is as it should be.

That said, I play as an industrialist, I fly billions in materials and finished goods to/from highsec markets every week and it’s years since I last lost a ship. You can learn to survive - even thrive as prey.

(Sicamrah Jasmone) #6

I fully agree that being ganked isn’t fun, but due to a lot of public pressure from among others Goonswarm ganking is seen as an accepted and emergent playstyle. See Miniluv and .Code as examples. Ganking only costs the ganker a ship and used to result in them losing security status eventually dropping down to -10 and then they were stuck there untill they fixed it. That actually resulted in them simply re-rolling a toon and starting over with a clean slate.

To combat that, because it was deemed to harsh CCP introduced a way to “buy” your security status back. You can farm or buy drops that can be turned in for an increase in security status. You will simply never see a “punishment” system in place that you are happy with as a victim. Heck i lost over 3 bil in a Bustard last week to 3 alpha tornado’s.

Nothing to be done about it except not put that much loot in a ship. There is a formula, that gankers use, the cost of their ships needs to be less then the value in loot and they even compensate for drop rate. In essence if you need to move anything worth more then the price of 3 fitted tornado’s use red-frog or something with a collateral.

Some other common sense things

“don’t use autopilot”
“If its small enough to put in an instawarp interceptor, try using that.”
“stealthbombers can move decent sized things and warp cloaked”
“Blockade runners can warp cloaked”
“Learn and properly execute the MWD + Cloak technique”

Honestly that last one would have saved my loaded DST, i failed because i wasn’t paying attention to my overview, opened up the market and the multibuy screen and was not prepared. They got a great drop too. But in the end it was entirely my fault. I’ve moved higs rigged rolling megatrons through 15 jumps of lowsec with gatecamps on nearly every jump and the gankers following me without getting caught. All because of MJD + Cloak. If done right you are almost immune to gankers. But in the end it all comes down to skill and luck. Sometimes the phone rings and you just hit the warp button and get snagged.

In the end, CCP is not going to “fix” ganking, the -10 thing was allready seen as too harsh and softened and really even that could be circumvented easily enough. Gankers excist, they live a boring life spending all their time “waiting” for a target that they then catch. And they make 2 - 3 bil a day doing it. So all in all stop feeding them kills. If you have 300 mil in a DST they are unlikely to grab you because its not profitable enough. So you might have to make multiple trips or pay a hauling company to run the risk for you.

(Nik'oli) #7

What can I say, I’ve got a low tolerance for wolf packs. Shoot them, shovel them, and turn the dog tags in for a bounty. I was only addressing -10 and below, although the nomenclature didn’t come through apparently. And, unless I’m reading something wrong, it’s what the big group wants anyway. There isn’t a day in newbie chat that doesn’t go by without someone writing about CODE. I’m on a second toon, but I have to downgrade my internet for a year until the city finishes putting it’s project in.

A Q-ship would be a nicer solution, I’ll admit, not sure how much traction it will get. A SERE module in the NPE would be even better.

(Maekchu) #8

Well we must be using different rookie chat’s then, since I’ve been sitting in that channel quite a lot myself. It is actually not that often people are complaining about suicide ganking. Most questions are about the tutorials, fits or UI questions.

This rampant suicide ganking is really just a myth. If suicide ganking or code really was an issue, then you wouldn’t have so many afk mining Orca’s or miners sitting in pipes using full flights of ‘Augmented’ mining drones.

Avoiding ship losses in highsec is already quite easy, so I don’t see the need for using dev hours in something that is not needed. Sorry for shooting down your idea, but it was bad balance-wise and covering parts of the game that are not nearly as broken as other parts that desperately require CCPs attention.

(Nik'oli) #9

I don’t mind it. It was a sketch, I didn’t put a lot of time into it. I’m missing something with the “pipes”, but then, I’m not exactly a CODE “customer”. More into exploration and Signal Cartel, when I can get the subscription secured. This toon was my first, from when life exploded in my face. I don’t play him.

(Xan Staraider) #10

James 315 has already outlined in a much earlier post why ganking is such an important part of the Eve community. Not only does it prevent the economy for collapsing under it’s own weight, it also provides High Sec with much needed player generated content.

Here are those posts:

Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto.
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40762

How highsec miners threaten EVE, and how we can stop them. Manifesto II.
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=101626

Praise James! \o/

(Nik'oli) #11

I’ve been posting in the other thread my feelings on CODE. I even wanted to calculate dps to survive the gank…and then I hit up CODE’s kill page. There’s no way to survive that much hate. Multiple catalysts fully armed. 8 guns per catalyst, times at least three. It was a sea of red, punctuated by little blocks of green. It’s not right. Even if they’re at the keyboard, there’s no way. That’s not “fun pvp”, it’s not even PVP. Security status should mean something, actually mean something. But, my attention is elsewhere for the moment, and will probably remain there for some time. We Americans have…finally gotten the government we deserve. Send vibes. Or prayers. Or both.

(Xan Staraider) #12

You mean there’s no way to survive that much LOVE.

If you follow the Code, you would know.

(Sicamrah Jasmone) #13

Like a said, .code and being ganked sucks, but its a part of eve. Some people really enjoy it. I personally don’t not from either side of the field. Its horribly boring on the ganker part and actually quite stressfull to pull off properly. And on the recieving end there litterally is nothing you can do once they engage. The moment that screech becomes audible you know you are most likely dead.

As to .code not being a problem… try the mining channels brah, or NPC corps like aliastra or something. Plenty of complaining about them over there. Personally i just try to avoid it all by not being in any place that has a local chat :sunny:

(system) closed #14

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