Possible Pirate Flag?


(Caolan Carraig) #1

How about this for a proposed solution to high sec ganking and giving players the chance to retaliate/defend.
New player corps stay as they are (the 12 starter corps only). However a player can only remain in these corps for a limited period to learn the game and must then move on to either one of the other NPC corps or a player run Corp. These NPC corps are the ones currently filled by players who have left noob corps, gone to a player Corp and then return to an NPC one.
These NPC corps are made strict in what standards of conduct are allowed by player members. Zero tolerance for initiating combat (not suspect flagging offences, criminal flag only) with other players in high sec. breaking of this rule immediately ejects you to the pirate faction NPC corp aligned with the regions of character ancestry ( same faction alignment as rats in character birth region). No coming back to a “good” NPC corp until your sec status reaches a nominal value.
The aggressing characters are now members of a pirate faction and visible to all. These Pirate NPC corps do not require any change to war Dec mechanics as all players are permanently classed as viable targets. Docking rights at some stations would be unavailable due to their association with a pirate faction.
I see that this might add an element of upset where a new player accidentally shoots another player “just to see what happens” but as long as this “accident” occurred during the time with the noob Corp then it wouldn’t affect their future.
This could make piracy a career choice with appropriate side effects and possibly also kick start a way of making bounty hunting viable.

What about player corps already engaged in ganking across high sec? Well, these guys are already open to war decs if anyone wants to challenge them, however alignment with a pirate faction could be enforced if corp members breach a certain value of kills against non war targets. This could work along the lines of Corp faction standings where average of all players affects Corp total.


(DeMichael Crimson) #2

Well, considering there’s various security status levels pertaining to the different system’s in high sec I think it would be tough to implement. Also since there’s ‘Tags for Security’ in-game most players can quickly raise their security status immediately after it get’s lowered.


(Lady Ayeipsia) #3

So wait… Gurista already despise me. Yet I could drop corp to NPC, shoot a few players in hi sec and go Gurista? That seems a little off.

Also, tying this to security status also seems odd as there could be odd issues with faction standings and such.

Not saying it’s a bad idea, I just think there may be more details you need to flush out.


(Linus Gorp) #4

What about you HTFU and either learn to play the game properly, or move to a more appropriate game, like World of Warcraft?
The problem isn’t ganking, nor is it that players can’t defend themselves against it. The problem is with players that are just plain too stupid and try to blame other players / game mechanics for their own lack of intellect.


(Caolan Carraig) #5

Actually I don’t really feel the need to HTFU.
Sorry you saw this post as a salty cry to change something, but at no point did I say that I didn’t think that the current system is unfair or that I was feeling aggrieved at losing something expensive due to the current mechanics.

Over the last few weeks there’s been a spate of posts where people have indeed been crying over the unfairness of the current system bit very rarely have they put forward any suggestions to make it better without completely killing the current mechanic. The solution I proposed in no way stops ganking from happening and doesn’t improve the safety of high sec. instead, it suggests a way in which to add some balance.

As we all know, 99% of those ganked in HS wouldn’t ever try to fight back no matter what was put in place to help them, they are just the eternal losers. However the other 1% might be tempted to hit out if there was a mechanic that didn’t completely favour the aggressors. Ganks are good for the game, but there should be consequences for repeat offenders which is greater in effect than losing a cheap ship and sec status.


(Linus Gorp) #6

Players with a sec status below -5 are already valid targets everywhere in highsec (starting at -2 they’re FFA in 1.0 space, -2.5 for 0.9 space, …). Your “proposal” is change for the sake of change without actually changing anything at all. So those 1% you’re speaking of already have the ability to freely engage. Now tell me, why aren’t they doing that already?


(Caolan Carraig) #7

The idea is that those who want to play a pirate become members of the pirate factions and do not need a negative sec status to be attackable.

It also removes the ability of ganker alts to hide in NPC corps which protects them from being open targets for a war Dec.


(Trevor Dalech) #8

Before you propose a solution, you’d need to convince me there is a problem.

Aside from that, most pirates in high sec (whether they have high or low security status) already operate under the assumption that they can be attacked anytime even if their sec is high, as they typically have dozens of (public or private) kill rights on them. So your ‘solution’ will not change anything for them.


(Black Pedro) #9

Sure, but the point is most pirates are -5 or below and free-to-shoot. The neutral ones often have public kill rights which accomplish a similar thing. And the new pirates, how would you decide to put them in a free-to-shoot corp if they haven’t done any piracy?

Being able to shoot criminals isn’t the problem as you already usually can. But all that, and moreso the infallible Faction Police, has done is keep criminals docked up most of the time and only flying disposible ships when they do leave the station.

While I think a pirate NPC corp is actually a cool idea, I don’t think it will do much to increase pirate-vigilante interaction without being paired with other changes.


(Salt Foambreaker) #10

This is part of the game, not a problem and doesn’t require a solution.


(DeMichael Crimson) #11

Well, I belong to the NPC starter corp so I’m against being forcibly kicked out after a set period of time, especially if the player maintains good standing. Course it should remain the same as it is now, once you leave the NPC starter corp, you can never return.

However, I might back the proposal if there was a 3 strike rule added to it, such as if the player attacks other players 3 times without provocation, they would be transferred from the NPC starter corp and placed into their Bloodline NPC corp. After that if their security level drops to or goes below -5 security status then they would be placed into the Pirate NPC Corp. If they raise their security status and regain positive standing and maintain it for a set period of time, then they get transferred back into their Bloodline NPC corp.


(Ima Wreckyou) #12

What problem are you actually trying to solve?


(ISD Buldath) #13

Moved topic to the player ideas and discussion portion of the forums.

~Buldath


(Caolan Carraig) #14

I completely accept that ganking isn’t actually the problem. I’m not making this suggestion in order to get rid of ganking as it is, despite the constant moaning about it, a great feature of the game. As something that you can both do and fall victim of it’s one of the things that makes Eve a huge sandbox success.

So, what is the suggestion for? At this point in time, gankers can live with impunity in NPC corps and are therefore safe from longer term retaliation via the current combat mechanics. It’s pretty clear that some people feel that all gankers are permanently flashy due to low sec status, but that simply isn’t the case. Yes, there are some who remain flashy, but a far bigger number of them use tags etc to fix their status so that they can continue to operate quite freely in high sec and just fix their sec as required.

This kind of breaks the immersion a bit. What company would accept employees, associates, partners (or whatever you want to call them) who actively pursue a career of piracy? My suggestion doesn’t remove the ability of players to play the game the way they want, all it does is move them into a more appropriate NPC corporation. Now, this would also give other consequences.

All pilots would see at a glance that there are pirates in system. The fact that they are now in the same Corp as the Npc rats makes them attackable by players regardless of sec status, so a consequence of following a career as a pirate means that you can repair your sec status to avoid attention of faction police, but not other players - the ones you present a threat to.

As you have also now effectively become a player ‘rat’, hunting you down for any bounty on your head becomes a viable career option for other players.

This is obviously not a complete solution and would take quite a bit more work to make it completely workable, but I feel that it offers an idea for change to current Npc Corp memberships that also balances the risk & rewards of choosing to be a pirate and also gives a viable bounty hunting mechanic.


(Scipio Artelius) #15

I dont get this bit, why are they safe?

Gankers don’t care about sec status and they all pretty much have killrights publicly available for free or small ISK costs.

So:

  1. The regular gankers are outlaws and can be freely shot by anyone at anytime
  2. They are hunted by FacPo even when not on a criminal timer
  3. Even those that aren’t yet outlaw, often have a free killright to activate
  4. Organised groups like CODE. are in player Corps and can be wardecced

So why are they safe from longer term retaliation via current combat mechanics?

Can you post the data on this, because pretty much every objective look at data over the last few years shows they don’t repair sec status and are happy to operate as outlaws?

So I’d be interested where you are getting this conclusion from.


(Caolan Carraig) #16

The point of moving players out of starter corporations after a set period of time plays to the game lore where the These are the three ‘school’ type NPC corporations of each empire.
You can’t stay at school for your entire life, so it would be reasonable to make a transition across to the appropriate career NPC corp at some stage. However, I know that having experienced players in these corps is a good thing for the game too as new players are immediately talking with vastly experienced players. Maybe this move should be something along the lines of an offer to move tied in with the NPE, but not compulsory unless you have demonstrated a tendency towards a piratical career.


(Ima Wreckyou) #17

All the gankers I know operate as perma -10 and are constantly flashy.

But lets assume for the sake of argument that there is a group of players who rep sec status.

Implementing your idea would mean they would simply make a player corp and if you dec them they will simply recycle it after 23h right before the war starts. So you would probably have to fix wardecs first in order for this to have any effect at all.


(DeMichael Crimson) #18

If so then they’d be attacked constantly by NPC’s in high sec.


(DeMichael Crimson) #19

Heh, if that were true there wouldn’t be any ‘Tags For Security’ in the game. Also Kill Rights first have to be made publicly available by the character who originally got the kill right. Even if that’s done the kill right itself isn’t easily seen unless you’re on grid with them. Then it can be activated after possibly paying an ISK fee. Lastly the kill right is only good for 30 days from the time it was initially gained.


(Mr Lopez) #20

Or simply make your safety green when your in a npc corp. You can only change safety settings by leaving a npc corp and joining a player corp.