[Excubitoris Chapter] Duty and Service to Amarr

[Mikal_Vektor]

This is a thoughtful rejoinder and a welcome reprieve from the quality of perspectives presented in this thread so far. I was beginning to think that some molecules of the speck might have somehow made their way from the Kyonoke Pit into icecream stores in one of LUMEN’s shared hangars. I hear the effects on cognition can be quite severe.

@Amicia_Cora

Though you now claim them to be mortal enemies, Local Is Primary did nothing to fight Electus Matari at Thebeka when LUMEN stood against them. That was okay, of course. We understand that Local is Primary has its own theatre within which to fight.

Local is Primary did nothing to fight Ushra’Khan when they deployed outside of the warzone to destroy LUMEN’s infrastructure in the Mandate. That was also okay, of course. We understand that Local is Primary has its own theatre within which to fight.

Quite so. As we are members of the Amarr Militia, you no doubt understand that we must often terminate pirates with higher security status that interfere with our business. The consequence is that operating in highsec is problematic for our pilots due to their low security status, and this is to say nothing of our issues with Minmatar and Gallente patrols. You do not expect aid from CTRLV in every engagement, just as we do not expect your assistance in all of ours.

@Amicia_Cora

Local is Primary did, however, fly alongside Dock Workers, where the benefits of such cooperation were understood to be sufficiently acceptable for Local is Primary, despite the fact that Dock Workers have been constant adversaries of LUMEN for many years

Dock Workers are cunning local pirates, but they are also a weapon to be used against greater foes. Like LUMEN, we have also turned our guns on Dock Workers when their objectives do not overlap with ours, and they most often do not. As far as the charge of CTRLV abetting your “constant adversar[y] for many years”… CTRLV has been fighting Dock workers, or their progenitor, DHSJ, since a time before your alliance was formed. I assure you, they’re a much bigger pain in my side than they are in yours. They always have been.

@Amicia_Cora

In every event, we have understood that Local is Primary has its own theatre within which to fight, often governed by different dynamics to ours. We understood this when it flew to defend a Minmatar-aligned structure

You speak truly. CTRLV did indeed, contrary to the council of both Lord Newelle and Lady Yassavi, assist in the defense of this Minmatar aligned bastion against an invading pirate entity. This was a grievous error: an error that you’re repeating in front of my eyes.

@Amicia_Cora

But LUMEN flies alongside Electus Matari […] and suddenly you cannot afford the same respect back because it is inconvenient for you in your theatre.

Yes, that’s correct. You have neither our respect nor our understanding in your ongoing collaboration with Electus Matari. The reasons for this are straightforward. Collaborating with pirates (whether they be dock workers or PNS) is not the same as collaborating with self-proclaimed enemies of the throne such as UK or EM. While honor is rare among pirates, it is absent by definition in the Minmatar soul. Tis true, CTRLV collaborated with UK against invading pirates. This was a colossal mistake, and one for which I was solely responsible. It is better to face down an enemy Titan in a half fitted punisher than to go into battle with the matari at your back. The word of the matari is as sturdy as their vessels, and they reneged on our agreement almost immediately, shoving a knife in my back. The betrayal of LUMEN by EM is not a matter of “if”. It is a matter of “when”.

The Empire sanctioned cooperation between capsuleers loyal to different factions (even those at war with the Empire) in the Triglavian invasion. The invasion has concluded. Your collusion with the enemy has not. So, when you gesticulate wildly towards my past errors with one hand while repeating them with the other, understand this: I take no pleasure in dispensing this scorn, but I will not sit idly by while this transpires. Your infatuation with EM bears a heavy toll. It has cost you the the support of CTRLV, the Yassavi family, and the Amarr Militia at large. I do not wish to escalate this further. However, If I must bathe your vessels in conflagration to help illuminate the truth to you, then rest assured, no crystal will be spared.

[Saronu_Yassavi]

@Amicia_Cora

satisfactory answers

Satisfactory to whom? I think my threshold to consider them so is a good deal higher than yours.

[Mizhara_Del_thul]

@Mikal_Vektor

Your infatuation with EM bears a heavy toll. It has cost you the the support of CTRLV, the Yassavi family, and the Amarr Militia at large.

Having seen Khimi Harar and its predecessors put in work for the Empire for some time now, I can’t think of a single time any of those have lent their support to begin with. I’m not sure what you think they’ve ‘lost’ here, but from the outside it doesn’t look like anything of value.

@Mikal_Vektor

However, If I must bathe your vessels in conflagration to help illuminate the truth to you, then rest assured, no crystal will be spared.

Oh now we’re talking. By all means, proceed. Gotta love it when you lot eat each other.

[Arrendis]

@Mizhara_Del_thul

Oh now we’re talking. By all means, proceed.

Pffft. Miz, it’s all a bunch of hot air, and we all know it. He’s threatening their ships. Oh Noez. It’s not like he’s swearing to go after their Fortizar.

[Mikal_Vektor]

@Amicia_Cora

There is far more than enough information here for anybody third-party to this dispute to make up their minds about the parties involved

On this, we agree. Most of the points you reference were thoroughly routed in their original context, for all to see. For example, your Chapter Master’s insinuation that the Triglav invasion still needs to be “sent back to the Abyss”, speaks volumes about his tactical awareness. Does he expect to encounter triangles on the Amarr undock? As I stated quite clearly previously, the Triglav invasion has ceased and they have occupied several Imperial planets. The Minmatar rebellion has also largely ceased, and they occupy hundreds of our planets. You would collude with a thief of jewels to apprehend a thief of cabbage.

I understand that seeing your excuses repeatedly eviscerated must be infuriating to witness. However, repetition is crucial in both education and training. When a pupil commits an error multiple times, repeated and consistent negative feedback can help correct their behavior. I am a man of patience. For as long as you regurgitate these arguments, I will continue meeting them with my heel.

As I have said multiple times previously, I do not subject myself to the chimping of self-described obligate pedants. Thus, I am not exposed to Arrendis posting in this forum. If you are so desperate to reference their posting in defense of your own, my advice would be to find a quiet asteroid on the fringes of known space, park your vessel in its shadow, offline all but your critical systems, and rethink your life choices.

[Aldrith_Shutaq]

I believe neither party will change stance at this point.

Electus Matari and Phoenix Naval Systems remain hostile at all times and in all contexts to us. Any who share a fleet with them will be considered accessories.

That is all.

[Arrendis]

@Mikal_Vektor

For example, your Chapter Master’s insinuation that the Triglav invasion still needs to be “sent back to the Abyss”, speaks volumes about his tactical awareness.

In fact, that’s just a paraphrasing of EDENCOM’s (as the unified anti-Trig C&C structure of the all four empires including the Amarr) official position on the invasion: that it is not over until the lost worlds are recovered.

[Sahara_Jackal]

@Arrendis

EDENCOM’s (as the unified anti-Trig C&C structure of the all four empires including the Amarr) official position on the invasion: that it is not over until the lost worlds are recovered.

Y-eeees, and so if you are Amarrian, you can definitely place the Triglavian Collective higher on the threat list . . . so long as you:

1. take the word of the entity with the strongest vested interest in perpetuating that belief;

2. firmly and completely ignore all reports of said empires engaging in diplomatic discussions with the Collective;

3. stick your head very deep in the sand about the fact that the Drifters publicly executed our previous Empress; AND

4. completely disregard the fact that there is ALSO an ongoing declared war against the Drifters right this very minute that you SHOULD be addressing instead.

But by all means, LUMENeers, ignore all of that so that Arsia Elkin’s betrayal of the Empire doesn’t interfere with your ability socialize with her at the next capsuleer soiree.

If you can’t put the Empress’ murder together with the flight of the Triglavian Collective from the Abyss to figure out that the Drifters are the single most dire threat to the cluster, it’s because your overprivileged noble brains are too stupid to do the math.

[Zeri_Shakiel]

So, the Triglavians invade the Empires, carve out some territory, and need us to fight the Drifters now?

Is there anything else the ungrateful Empires can do for you?

[Celeste_Etoile]

They were set personally blue for the duration of the op.

It was the SOP for fleets with Pandemic Horde during the nullbloc war, with them to be removed immediately after fleet conclusion. It prevented confusion with shooting neutral pilots during joint operations.

I did the same while flying operations in against Kybernauts with Electus Matari and other groups that were otherwise red to LUMEN. Again, removed immediately after. LUMEN command also did not ever direct pilots to do this, to my knowledge. I recall several close calls on both sides due to literally seeing red, as some pilots would warp in before joining fleet.

I chose to avoid this by temporarily changing personal standings.

[Sahara_Jackal]

Oh aren’t you JUST so precious. You’re not doing anything for me. That’s the point, see—you’re not doing a damn thing at all.

You and the glorious Amarrians in PIE and LUMEN sat on your gilt filigree asses for almost eight months after the Triglavian invasions ended. You were perfectly content to do NOTHING at all that entire time . . . until the day that Maldavius threatened Electus Matari with an ultimatum concerning EM’s aggression toward a pirate group in Minmatar space.

Oh, and how you all came running then!

No, it wasn’t the fate of civilians left behind in Raravoss, or Harva, or Niarja, or Kuharah that finally got you to act. It wasn’t the fear of further Triglavian aggression, or any call to arms from EDENCOM, or any desire to “take back” those stars.

No—as usual, it was LUMEN’s sickening subservience to Electus Matari that finally broke eight months of apathetic inaction.

And now here you all are, incensed at those who point out your hypocrisy and—hilariously—calling for restoration of harmony. Unity. For the good of Amarr!

What a colossal joke that is. You and your noble capsuleer friends are the perfect representation of everything that is sick and corrupted in the Holy Empire. Where who you know is stronger and more important than what you know; where blood dictates over competence, where merit loses to lineage, and patronage elevates empty shells to loftiest heights, like the hot desert winds blowing an empty plastic bag into the sky.

Your former allies in LiP are right to hold you in contempt. You earned every bit of it.

[Abigail_Renaud]

■■■■ you, too, IGS. You let me respond with only an emote before, but now it’s too short a message?

[Abigail_Renaud]

Oh, I quoted someone last time, that’s why.

[Abigail_Renaud]

@Sahara_Jackal

No—as usual, it was LUMEN’s sickening subservience to Electus Matari that finally broke eight months of apathetic inaction.

[Zeri_Shakiel]

@Sahara_Jackal

You and the glorious Amarrians in PIE and LUMEN

I do appreciate you giving respect where it is due. However, I do not think though that throwing fuel in what you believe, and hope, is a fire within Amarr is going to save you from the coalition formed against you.

@Sahara_Jackal

Your former allies in LiP are right to hold you in contempt. You earned every bit of it.

Whether they are right or not has, I believe, been clearly revealed with much public debate, I am of course not surprised you are steadfastly on the side that serves you best. As if the endorsement of a Triglavian would be any sort of help to the side that received it.

[Arrendis]

 

[Lasairiona_Raske]

Y’all are forgetting the most important thing when reading the IGS - copious quantities of alcohol.

cheers!

[Ferra_Orta]

I’ve been leaving this thread to those it pertains, though I will make myself heard to say this; Amen.

[Miran_Tereven]

@Erica_Munory

And if that doesn’t get me banned from the IGS, the sorry state of my zkillboard will.

If you would like to rectify that, I would not mind helping.

@Arrendis

In fact, that’s just a paraphrasing of EDENCOM’s (as the unified anti-Trig C&C structure of the all four empires including the Amarr) official position on the invasion: that it is not over until the lost worlds are recovered.

The fact of the matter is that until the Stellar Transmuter which was captured in the Arshat system is reverse-engineered, nothing can be done to recover the lost systems, as one would, for the lack of a better word, have to have a way to un-weave them.

If one wanted to diffuse this conflict to some extent, then the rational course of action would be to postpone joint operations until such a time as when said reverse engineering would enable EDENCOM to make meaningful gains, rather than shelving the co-operation completely.

[Arrendis]

@Miran_Tereven

If one wanted to diffuse this conflict to some extent, then the rational course of action would be to postpone joint operations until such a time as when said reverse engineering would enable EDENCOM to make meaningful gains, rather than shelving the co-operation completely.

I think that, like pretty much any sequence of ‘ok, we’ll stop doing X until Y’ does, would basically just guarantee the loss of capability to restart the paused activity. People change focus, get tied up in other affairs. If you want to maintain operational capacity, you have to continue using it.