Expansion: New Universe, All Equal


There’s a signature out past surveyed space that doesn’t behave right. Probes come back as noise, ships don’t come back at all, and whatever is in there finds the mass and pulls it apart somewhere mid-transit. Hull, cargo, rigs. A capsule gets through intact. Only the capsule.

The pilot on the other side is awake and doesn’t remember anything they ever learned. Twenty years of certifications burned out of the imprint during the crossing. You know your own name and that’s the extent of it. And you’re sitting in a cluster nobody has flown, with no gates anyone built and nowhere to dock.


The actual pitch

A new universe, shipped as a canon expansion. New regions, new systems, none of it copied off the existing map. Everyone who goes through arrives at zero SP with an empty hangar and no standings.

It isn’t a Classic server and it isn’t a rewind, because there’s nothing here to replay. Nobody has nostalgia for a cluster that has never existed. What you’d get instead is the one thing this game stopped being able to sell about fifteen years ago, which is being early. Space nobody has scanned. Moons nobody has pulled. Not one structure anywhere on the map, and nobody already parked on the good ice.

I know the reflex on this, because I have it too, so let me get the one-universe objection out of the way. It stays one place. One new universe, one shard, canon, reached through the game’s own fiction rather than a launcher toggle. New Eden doesn’t get copied and doesn’t get touched.

The population split is where I expect the real pushback, and the answer is that the frontier character is an extra slot on your Omega account that trains in parallel. Your main keeps flying, your corp keeps its structures, and nobody is asked to pick one. If it can’t work that way I don’t think it should ship.

The rules

Everyone starts at zero SP, so the 2003 character and the guy who installed the client last night undock in the same rookie ship. Nothing transfers: no isk, no assets, no characters, no standings, no blueprints. The moment one thing gets an exception the rest follow it inside a year.

No skill injectors for five years, with the end date published at launch and honored to the day. I’d argue for five over three because three doesn’t give a real economy time to form before people start buying past it, and I’d argue hardest against leaving it vague, since a soft date makes every other promise here worthless.

Ships, modules and the skill tree all made the crossing as recovered technology. You already know how to fly. You just don’t know where anything is.

No empire space on day one. You get a beachhead around the wormhole exit and hisec grows outward from there over months. Past that edge nothing is protecting you, and where the edge sits is worth fighting over by itself.

Markets seed from nothing. First battleship, first freighter, and a trade hub that forms wherever people actually pile up instead of where a dev decided it should go. Whatever that place turns out to be, nobody picked it in advance.

Who it’s for

The people who left because they ran the numbers on catching up and decided against it. You know several. The skill gap is the reason they give, and this deletes it.

The people still here who have done everything. You’ve ratted every region worth ratting and there is nothing left to be first at. Over here everything is.

Newbros as well, though that’s a side effect rather than the argument.

What I don’t have answers for

Does hisec expand by NPC decree, or do players push the border outward by building infrastructure? The second is much more EVE and much harder to keep from breaking, and I don’t know which way I’d go.

Permanently open wormhole or scheduled transit windows that become events by themselves. Omega only or an alpha tier. Whether anything at all carries across, and my instinct there is nothing, cosmetic at absolute most.

The one that actually worries me is month one, before industry spins up. Get that wrong and the opening era is six weeks of grinding in Ventures instead of a land rush, and the whole thing dies inside its first patch cycle.

(Posted here because I assume larger initiatives like this will need more community buy-in/ CSM engagenemnt)

Cough EVE Frontier Cough

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I’m not going to play when the game resets, but neither will I play when half the remaining population quits to play in this new universe as this makes the old New Eden die of boredom.

I guess I’d quit.

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Yeah, no. This proposal kills EVE.

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I’d argue EVE Frontier is … not at all the same. All of the mechanics are different, plus the weird crypto stuff that turned everyone off. The lore is probably the same, and realistically they can stamp whatever story they want on it.

It’s such a massive change I don’t know if there is anything equivalent to compare against. When they added wormholes it brought a run to the games all-time player count peak. That was new space, but with new mechanics.

WoW classic is a comparison but they’re so dissimilar, and people played that for different reasons, not sure if it’s the same. But it certainly didn’t kill WoW Retail - it doubled the playerbase.

You’d bring back players who haven’t touched the game in ages, and some of the connections made there will surely bring them back to EVE mk1.

It’s more it represents the fresh start and landgrab that is central to this proposal. And yes it has baggage.

WoW Classic did temporarily bring me back to play WoW as well.

But a major difference is that I need 4 other players to enjoy WoW’s gameplay of running dungeons, which was my favourite part, where I need a few thousand other players on a server to enjoy EVE’s gameplay.

WoW is mainly a cooperative game with you and a few friends or randoms, so is fine if a few dozen players are on a server, where EVE requires a healthy playerbase of thousands to populate this universe we play in.

Splitting the WoW playerbase into separate servers doesn’t hurt the game. In fact with instancing the game intentionally splits the playerbase so everyone has their own version of the open game to play in without too much interference of others.

On the other hand splitting the EVE playerbase by making a second EVE server is likely going to cannibalize the game, even if it temporarily boosts total player numbers with a short hype while the new thing is new. Unlike WoW as a themepark game that even solo is fun to run all the quests, EVE is a sandbox game where for most players other players are the content, and without content this game gets boring fast.

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No sense to play what was suggested… also just some SP needed to start doing pve/pvp/digging/traiding… SP is not the real reason why someone stoped playing.

How many players were playing on a test server? Was there free SP and ability to fly anything?

Yeah, I’m sorry but no…

When I started playing Eve in 2008, there was already a bunch of experienced player characters with lot’s of SP’s and equipment… I didn’t let that stop me from playing…

I actually fleeted up with other characters at the same level as me and we basically explored New Eden while learning how to play the game, we trained skills and advanced our characters into various careers, never once thinking we needed to catch up to those other older characters..

So yeah, using the excuse of needing to catch-up as a reason for a re-boot to delete everybody’s SP’s and equipment doesn’t fly for me…

However, I don’t have a problem with opening a new section of space using low powered gates, like Jove space for example, which only allows small hull class ships to access it, basically have the new space for exploration only, meaning no system / constellation / region development or claiming Sov… The new space could have low powered stations allowing only low level manufacturing of munitions and simple ship refits, course those stations won’t be everywhere and can only be found with scan probes…

Other than that, I worked hard for years to get my character built up so anytime I see a proposal for a fresh start that puts all characters at zero SP’s with no resources will always get a definite no vote from me…

DMC
o7

2 Likes

Exactly.

Besides a small group of players the vast majority of current veteran players also started with near zero SP in an established universe where others had been playing for years or decades and were miles ahead.

Anf that’s not an issue. You too will survive, learn, find a niche, grow and expand your options like others before.

Persistence of this game universe has always been a huge draw to me, I never would have spent this time on it if I knew the game would ‘reset’.

And yes, placing a second fresh game version next to it and drawing a noticable part of the playerbase to go play there instead is essentially going to be a ‘reset’ which kills the old server, or at least kills the activity and content on it that we enjoy playing.

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I hate to sound like a crotchety old bittervet but, I have to agree with DMC here. When I started the game back in '08 I was recruited by a friend who had more SP and experience. It never bothered me that he, or thousands of others, had more SP, ISK, assets and ships than I did. I just wanted to experience the game. Eve especially depends far more on experience in the universe than SP to be competitive and only time spent in universe helps with that.

I’ve only been a beta player in one online game. Being around at the very beginning of a game isn’t a requirement to have fun. I certainly don’t care that there are literally millions of folks online who I’ll never “catch up” to.

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So what happens in a year or two when the new characters introduced to this space accrue SP and assets?

Unfair! Another reset! EVE should be a seasonal game!

(Seriously though, I really hope never to see resets in EVE)

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