i don’t agree here. Skills are capped at V and all the new players can gain veteran level in an area easily and quickly. what do you want to catch up to? do you really think a veteran is still skilling his main toon? well, some might but most players stop when they can do what the toon was designed for and then focus on another toon.
Just wondering, if there is anything preventing a non-beginner character using this to say taxi home?
No, there isn’t.
In fact, it’s great for non-beginners to have a temporary taxi to move alts around.
Yeah, so really once more, a pack of lies from CCP
I mean, does anyone actually believe them anymore? They lie like a government, knowing no one is going to do anything about it.
Its pathetic
WTF is that link madness? That’s the warning notification for trying to open the Expert trash in the (obviously) external store. Does that link contain my EVE session token?
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Magic 14 Skills, which is a Uniwiki term, are actually the Core Fitting Skills which need to be trained at max level to competently fit ships. Without those skills trained up, a basic fit can barely be achieved. Just training up the Core Fitting Skills uses up most of the 5 mil Alpha SP’s, doesn’t leave much for anything else.
Same as what CCP did with Agent access and quality level’s, they can max the Core Fitting skill stats and automatically install them in Character Creation.
please don’t whine when you find your account hacked now that you shared the token with the world.
No, they aren’t and they don’t.
A competent fit is not a ‘perfect T2 fit’. Yes that tends to be the null fleet Meta, or the mission running meta. But that is like saying that end game raid gear is needed to do the raid. It’s a recursion, a T1/Meta fit is perfectly competent as a fit. It’s not a competitive 1v1 fit sure, and it might not be able to solo missions in perfect times, but that is a ‘modern’ expectation that anyone flying a ship can do those things. And not a requirement.
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No they aren’t.
The ‘magic 14’ is in no way required to be at level 5 for players to competently fly their ships.
Players can easily fly with most of those skills at 3 or 4 instead of 5 without any issues. Training those skills to this ‘competent’ leve takes a couple days at most. Training those skills is not a requirement.
Stop telling newbies they need to have skills at level 5 to competently fly a ship. Apart from unlock requirements that you sometimes find at level, level 4 in most skills will make you competent and takes only 20% of the time / SP required.
Level 5s (and implants, boosters) are if you want to squeeze everyting out of a fit, but are in no way required to be competent.
You wouldn’t tell a newbie they need all the support skills indicated for the ship ingame at level 5 to competently fly a ship? Then why would you say so for the ‘magic 14’?
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Because it makes things much easier and convenient. You do not have to resort to bling or downgrade to meta modules to make sensible fittings work. Realizing that would prevent many complaints from newbies about not being able to fly a suggested fitting or fit their ships at all.
Weapon support skills are something completely different from basic fitting resources skills. Even comparing them to the Magic 14 is hilarious. You do not need Small Artillery Spec 4 or 5 to fit the gun but you need CPU and PG to fit the guns, and you need Weapon Upgrades to fit weapon damage support modules.
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Easier & convenient is not required though.
All skills make things easier and more convenient. There’s nothing ‘magic’ about the ‘magic 14’ apart from the name some people have given them.
People somehow think the ‘magic 14’ are magic skills that everyone needs to have at level 5, more than any other skills.
They aren’t.
The ‘magic 14’ is the answer to the rookie question I don’t know what I should train for and I don’t know what I want yet. The ‘magic 14’ is a set of generally useful skills that are rarely a bad train, but are in no way required.
They are not the answer to What skills should I train before I can undock this ship?.
People, please learn the difference.
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Those two guys have no clue what they’re talking about, all they do is contradict everything, reminds me of players who would say ‘Just fit a PG or CPU Implant to make the fit’.
Sometimes that is a good solution. What’s wrong with that?
A noob doesn’t need the so called “magic 14” right out of the gate (which prior to expert systems I have never heard of that term btw). The idea they need to start with them is garbage.
When they are a noob are they going to be solo powerhouses with perfect game knowledge out the gate? No. They are going to be learning in cheap fits in fleets with other pilots.
The people that tell the noob that they are useless unless they train x are simply wrong and that attitude is bad for the game.
There are plenty of ways to make a noob a perfectly useful extra body in a fleet with ships that are competent, cheap, and don’t require max fitting skills while they learn game mechanics. Plenty of roles for noobs to fill in small fleets or you can make a swarm of noobs and blob the “vets” while not caring if you lost a few mil in noob’s ships to take down hundreds of millions in vet ships.
These same cheap fits also mean the noob can get them for free from other pilots or afford them on their noob ISK making level and not fly what they can’t afford to lose.
Next there are plenty of roles and gameplay, especially non combat where several of those skills are of lesser or non importance. Not everyone wants to grind missions or rat for ISK.
Then on top of that, if the noob really has to have the “magic 14” soon, the game already has a ton of accelerated ways to get free sp, especially for noobs. Log in sp, skilling spree, holiday/event sp, cerebral accelerators from events and subscription bonuses, referral program, etc. New accounts even start with more skills by default than ever before. The flow of free sp these days is staggering and we haven’t even gotten to injectors, implants, etc that they can spend their earned ISK on to accelerate even faster!
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The term ‘Magic 14’ was implemented by Uniwiki and it seems also picked up by CCP. It’s actually the Core Fitting Skills which is needed to fit ships. Those skills not only increase PG, CPU and Cap, they also increase the ships speed, agility and defensive stats.
And yes new players do need those skills trained up, without them they can’t even do the most basic ship fit.
And that’s a load of crap, it’s people like you that are bad for the game. What I see from your reply is that you wanna keep new players as fodder in your fleet.
No, it’s your mentality that is a load of crap. We just aren’t elitists that force noobs into ships they not only have no idea how to fly but can’t afford. Its no wonder a lot of noobs are afraid of PVP. They have people like you telling them they are worthless until X skill or until they use X ship that is millions of isk that they can’t afford. Swipe their wallet or wait a to train or they are worthless.
Then they get there, and guess what? They are then chasing that “next skill” before they PVP or go to null or whatever. Never being good enough.
Day 1 they can be useful in a fleet. Noobs having fun, learning to accept loss, learn mechanics, die in affordable ships, and be “fodder” for a while while they learn is a much better alternative to being told to do nothing while waiting to fly with garbage like you unless they swipe the credit card.
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You’re just a garbage can full of BS.
I don’t try to force brand new players into different ships or tell them not to do anything or that they’re worthless until they’ve trained up x skills.
You obviously never tried to help a brand new player do a basic fit on the ships they get from the Career Agents.
And that right there is the biggest lie of all, constantly being propagated by BS artists like you who use brand new players as fodder for your BS battles.
(Bolded the interesting part.)
But you do, you said earlier that newbies cannot competently fly ships without more than a dozen of support skills at level 5! Literally!
How do you explain that?
This really isn’t helpful for newbies, telling them they cannot competently fly ships without some arbitrary skills trained to level 5.
And the ‘magic 14’ is just that: an arbitrary set of support skills that is no more needed to fly a particular ship than any other skills that help for that ship. The only attribute of the magic 14 is that those skills apply to most ships, but usually other skills are more useful to fly a particular ship.
Let me repeat once again: apart from level 5s that unlock skills, it never is needed to get skills to level 5 to be able to fly a ship competently.
For 20% of the training time you get 80% of the effect at level 4. Stop telling newbies they need level 5s fo fly a ship competently.
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Tier 2 modules take more fitting space, but luckily for new players tier 1 modules are cheaper, have no/less skill requirements and are much easier to fit.
Tell the day 1 newbie to fit compact or t1 modules, tell them to get their fitting skills to level 4, do some concessions with fitting modules or rigs. There are lots of possibilities and ‘telling they need level 5 skills’ is the worst option.
Eventually they could need level 5 fitting skills to be able to fit T2 modules. But those aren’t required in their first weeks or months. In fact, after years of playing I still often fit meta modules.
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