On a tight fit there is nice to have an option to go into faction rlml…
but thats all there is?
acording to my skills its around +200m isk for +1 dps
the reward vs risk seems rather unbalanced in the rapid light missiles department, is it true for all faction/pirate turret and launchers?
i wish that the balance would shift a little bit in the new “missile & turret” tiercide
What “risk” and what “reward”?
You’re paying for the premium of having weapons that are easier to fit and are able to deal more damage. Also, the cost of the modules is not managed by CCP, so asking for changes like that won’t do you any good. The prices are set by the players. Why don’t you reach out to them about it?
no… im only paying a premium for weapons that are easier to fit??
only low sp players would be able to pay for better damage, i think?
as the higher attackspeed+1 missile = ~1 more dps then light missile spec iv
the bases of eve and driving force of the eve market is that more risk (more bling) = more reward (= higher dps > higher income/hr) as you can fly pimped out ships that are gank targets.
You’d be wrong on that, but okay.
So what I’m getting is that you’re not willing to take the “risk” for the “reward”? And instead of getting better, you’re whining to CCP to fix it?
uhm… what? no i’m right.
(at missile specialization III)
200m bling vs t2 = +1.7 dps.
(at missile specialization IV)
200m bling vs t2 = +1 dps.
(at missile specialization V)
200m bling vs t2 = +0.9 dps.
(0.9-2 dps difference is … pointless)
as you can see, there is no clear “reward” to be had
other then easier fitting options.
And no, im not whining at ccp…?
nor do i belive this to be a discussion about me beeing good or bad?
Im just trying to have a discussion about faction missiles …
AND also im wondering about other faction weapons systems, are they as bad as rapid light missiles?
faction turret gets more tracking(?) - why shouldnt faction launchers get similar bonuses?
That was a comment to your statement:
Which is wrong. Because first, SP doesn’t matter, and second, even if it did, high SP players would also be able to pay for better damage.
See, the problem here is that you don’t really know what you’re talking about. (btw, the answer is “yes”, but not for your reason).
Your complaint is that it’s EXPENSIVE to purchase these faction modules.
And because it’s expensive TO YOU, personally, you think it’s “bad”. Which is why you’re asking this question, “are they as bad as rapid light missiles?”, i.e. “are they as EXPENSIVE FOR ME as rapid light missiles?”
You have to realize that expensive prices are set by the players, not by CCP. It doesn’t mean they are “good” or “bad”. In fact, it’s a lot more complicated than I care to explain right now but involves factors such as faction warfare, the amount of LP available, the value of the LP, the velocity of the item, the demand and supply of faction modules, the relative profitability of other LP-based items, etc. etc. etc.
But all of this is actually tangential to the ACTUAL problem, your bad fit. I don’t even have to know what kind of monstrosity you are trying to fit up. If you’re resorting to the use of faction weapon modules, your fit is messed up and needs improving.
At the end of the day, there’s really only 2 outcomes.
or
what the actual f… you should stop smoking crack?
also, you are suporting my argument… aswell as denying it…
sp does matter, the more sp you have, the less dps gaind from faction over t2…
in this case its about missile spec, which improves attack speed… at 2% per lvl.
at lvl 5 you get a 10% attack speed bonus, but only on t2 launcher, not on faction modules - faction however have a 12.5% faster attackspeed then t2…
the diffrence is (with max skills) 2.5% faster attackspeed+1 loaded missile and that is around +0.9dps acording to my pyfa.
stop trying to mindread me, you fail missarable.
no, what im saying is that 0.9-1.7 dps increase = no real dps increase at all.
i dont take a stance about 200m beeing alot or not alot…
im saying that for 200m, we ONLY get more fitting options, no dps gains whatsoever.
(which you claim we get)
and i dont know why you are talking about how the market works and dont works.
it really dont matter if the cost is 10b or 10m
my complaint, if i had one(?) is that i dont get anything for my money.
and i dont think 200m to be expensive… not for something that is usefull, but they are not usefull, to me. so idk.
Faction equipment is either purchased from LP stores or harvested as loot from combat sites. It is expensive because it is scarce and because people are willing to pay a large premium for a small fitting and rate of fire bonus. As others have said, the price is set by the market - the only reason they are so expensive is players are willing to pay that price.
CCP can influence the market by changing the stats or drop rate - affecting how desirable or common the product is - the price will adjust to reflect supply and demand. Under no circumstances should they interfere directly in the market.
in the case of rapid light missiles… the large premium is only for fitting purposes.
(unlike what has been claimed in this thread, there is no real damage bonus).
also. i know all of this market stuff your talking about, i dont understand why you and scoot keep ranting about how the market works…
What i do wonder is; is there more weapon systems,
where faction ONLY offers the same applied damage as t2, but with less fitting requirments?
are all faction launchers the same as rlml?
You don’t use Faction weapons on your ship to get more damage.
You use them because they are less CPU/PG.
Which allows more room to fit stuff elsewhere.
Not that difficult, see?
Generally, yes, with variations of course.
RLML have a rate of fire bonus compared to T2 - 12.5% in the case of Caldari and Guristas models. This will deliver a lot of damage very quickly (your dps figure likely includes reload time). They also have a slightly larger magazine so you get an extra salvo before needing to reload. These small changes at the margin can make a big difference in outcomes. Enough to justify the price for some players.
Other weapons are similar - some fitting improvement, a small damage modifier plus increased rate of fire and magazine capacity - although the price spread with T2 is rarely that extreme. Basically a function of supply and demand.
well… sure, for the odd assault frigate pilot yolo filamenting or so… with alot of money to spend to be able to min/maxing everything… but those pilots are rare where i live.
but also no?
(do i need to update pyfa or something?? …all skills 5)
the lower cpu fitting options (domination,republic) have less dps then t2 (without reload) its -2.2 dps.
the lower powergrid options (caldari, gurista) as already said, has +0.9 dps (without reload).
yes i know!
but if you where to take your time and read the thread… the discussion was about someone claiming that you ALSO get more dps, that is not true.
there is a tiercide coming to turret and launchers… and i really hope that faction launchers get a buff to be more in line of the faction turrets…
we all know missiles for pvp is perhaps “fun” at best… but anyone serious about pvp knows that missiles are mainly for pve or maybe for semi-large pvp gang/fleet, aslong as there is no tidi.
[edit]
i tinkerd a little bit with pyfa, i had wrong numbers…
the lower cpu is -4.5dps ?
the lower pg is +1.8dps…
anyways… its all the same dps in the long run, if there is no hidden bonuses on faction or something…
The Caldari / Guristas variants will fire 21 salvos in 114.66 seconds before requiring reload. The T2 will fire 20 salvos in 124.8 seconds.
That’s base module stats - hull bonuses, skills, modules, implants, etc… not considered. The missiles themselves do the same amount of damage regardless of the launcher - you’re paying for the ability to fire more missiles in less time.
Whether it’s worth it is subjective - the people who buy them do so voluntarily and presumably consider it a good investment.
They can also change the cost of the offer in the LP store. many offers have an arbitrary isk cost, which is 10M in the case of rlml.
yes, obviously…
the whole bit about that “ccp cant and should not effect the market” is just a silly argument… and also quite offtopic.
is that 20 salvos in 124.8 seconds AFTER 10% improved speed from light missile spec?
it is not?
124.9 x 0.9 ( t2 only launch rate multiplier) = 112.3 seconds for 20 missiles.
meaning the only dps gain is from that +1 missile loaded.
so there is a small dps gain after 113 seconds, in that 1 extra salvo, for someone with max skills.
the dps difference is bigger the less skillpoints someone has in missile specialty…
which ofc is weird as its not a long train time, and novice pilots who dont have the skill, often dont have the isk for the launchers… and pro players with isk, should know a skilinjector gives more dps gains at the same price
Specialist training in the operation of advanced light missile launchers and arrays. 2% bonus per level to the rate of fire of modules requiring Light Missile Specialization.
modules that require Light Missile Specialization:
Light missile launcher
Rapid Light missile launcher
Like people have mentioned the main benefits seem to be for fitting purposes, you seem to be forgetting that benefit and only focusing on dps.
This isn’t listed as a launcher attribute. T2 rate of fire is 6.24 seconds, Caldari Navy is 5.46 seconds. If you have information to the contrary, please post the reference.
Attribute modifiers from ammunition, skills, implants, hull bonuses, etc … will apply equally to both modules ( the faction weapons can fire T2 ammunition)
yes… not like my first post mentioned anything about this…
(and ofc someone said something about dps beeing better, which is simple not true.
Skill info:
Specialist training in the operation of advanced light missile launchers and arrays. 2% bonus per level to the rate of fire of modules requiring Light Missile Specialization.
Modules that require Light Missile Specialization = t2 light missile launchers.
the faction modules does not get a 10% faster launcher rate, which makes the faction missile launchers very awkward and weird… less fitting requirments, sure… same dps yes…
it seems like light missile launchers hasent changed in 15 years… but the game has changed around it.
right now… if you need better fitting options, and obviously have isk to do so.
Dont go for faction missile launcher, go for mutaplasmad modules.
(the lower cpu launchers fire alot slower then the t2 launchers, i know becouse i have t2 and 1 domination… i have 3-4 missiles left in the domination when i reload the t2)
Interesting, I overlooked the specialization skill - that equalizes the damage and leaves fitting - or bragging rights as the motivation.