PvE doesn’t make sense because even if you lose fighters, the amount of ISK you make will easily cover them. It’d take way more than 10% to make PvE unattractive. There are multiple EWAR modules, intelligent tactics, and other options that can already defang or greatly assist in defanging a carrier in this game, even if its a super. If that’s not enough and the community’s complaints want the task made even easier to the point to where it makes the game logic and lore look stupid, then what am I to do about it since I’m just one player. It’s actually funny to see rigid lore consistencies with multiple things in this game except a certain few, with the underlying justification being “The community doesn’t like this. It’s not fair.”
It’s not even an apocalyptic change, it’s just that I wouldn’t imagine a community of players in a game like this out of ALL games would want something nerfed, softened, and suppressed so badly that it doesn’t even follow game logic and common sense anymore. What bothers me is that people would think its ok that it exists, but would turn around and act as if everything is ruthless, unforgiving, and hardcore (except for the things they don’t like. Those things are apparently nerfed to the point of silliness). Apparently I got the wrong impression about this game and the community. The devs are just following feedback. Either way, your answer tells me this is probably never gonna change, especially if I’m the only person to complain about it. Thank you for the answer.
Because a tiny ship shouldn’t have the power requirements to use weapons systems designed for ships 4 classes larger.
There are related systems that the weapons platform relies on to perform, not to mention the physical requirements for loading and launching the larger torpedos.
Simply put, a small ship shouldn’t be able to handle the physical stress of launching bombs that are nearly as large as the ship it’s self.
The launch of these bombs should rip the small ship apart, but for game mechanics should at least break alignment and any forward momentum.
Then you have the space required for these bombs. They’re designed for ships 4 classes larger than the ship launching them.
At the very least, frigate bombers should have smaller bombs that cause less damage.
Then, you have to consider that these are stealth bombers. There is a reason not every ship can fit covert cloak. It takes specialized systems to operate, which takes more power.
In relation to the topic of carriers and above, no frigate, or even a medium size gang of frigates should be able to defang and kill a capital sized ship so easily.
Even a solo carrier, as all the reasons I’ve mentioned previously should make all capital ships overwhelming for anyone but a dedicated cap hunter group.
I understand why people don’t like caps. They’re large, deadly and intimidate a lot of people. They should.
They take years of skills to fly, then fit. Billions in skill books, billions to fit, and billions for the hull.
500m in frigates should not realistically counter them.
Every effort to reduce cap ships to barely above battleships spits on the cap pilots. We invest a lot more than anyone invests in frigates.
CCP seems to disagree. They intentionally and specifically designed these ships to have the power requirements to use Torpedos.
1 Like
Let me fix that for you.
“From the other perspective, the complaints of the carrier pilot come down to “Why can I as solo player in an expensive, powerful capital ship designed to kill tiny ships with 27-36 tiny ships of my own not easily survive and defeat many other players who are working together in fleets of tiny ships? Why is it that teamwork should magically mean that I can’t win when the reality is that I should in every way if people are, for some stupid reason, going to use the very hulls I’m designed to suppress? Why are the tiny, supposedly fast ships in my hangar now suddenly struggling to keep up with a battlecruiser-sized vessel? Why are my heavy fighters suddenly evading fire better and moving faster than my light fighters?”
“Just because you put more money in your ship doesn’t mean you should automatically win the fight.” Do you think the power of love and friendship should win fights too? Do you think you should win fights because you’re emotional and using the power of teamwork when you are way outmatched? Do you think game logic and common sense shouldn’t exist because you don’t feel like dealing with it and feel entitled to victory because you’re trying hard? The very fact that idiotic and childish thinking like this is not only in the majority, but also taken seriously in balancing decisions is why I quit.
Your 27-36 tiny ships are a thematic 27-36 tiny ships. For gameplay purposes these are only three tiny ships that are easily caught, killed or otherwise made ineffective with EWAR. And then you’re just a very large slow expensive kill if you haven’t brought backup.
Easily caught, killed, and made ineffective with frigates? Have you actually fought a carrier with frigates? Scratch that. Have you ever fought a carrier at all?
Especially with frigates.
If you want to know the type of ship that’s good at tackling quick fighters or applying EWAR to them, what else would you expect, apart from frigates?
Do you even know the EHP of fighter squadrons? Or is this your fantasy of how you THINK EVE should work?
How many weapon tracking disruptors or warp disruptors does it take to catch all ‘27-36 tiny ships’?
Why would you warp disrupt fighters. They can’t even warp if their parent carrier is on grid. Tracking disruptors do not affect fighters. Fighters do not have the tracking stat. You have literally no understanding of what you’re talking about. You’re just fantasizing. You’ve never fought a carrier nor do you know how their mechanics work. Be silent.
They could warp back to safety if their parent carrier is >300km away.
The situation you’re describing wouldn’t have a carrier that is 300km away. That carrier is on grid within range of frigates. It’s also less than 300km, but you wouldn’t know that because you don’t even fly carriers.
Sure thing, but for gameplay mechanics those squads are each one entity, not 9 or 12. That was the point I was trying to make.
…That has nothing to do with what I’m talking about… The squad is one entity but there are still 9-12 individual ships with their individual EHP that need to be killed… This has dragged off topic. You’re wasting my time with your stupidity.
Yet a single web will slow those 9-12 ‘individual ships’ down to make it easier to kill them.
You’re not actually commanding 27-36 ships when you’re flying a carrier. That’s just thematic.
Yeah, I disagree with that.
A weapons system is going to use the same amount of power regardless to what it’s attached to.
I suppose an argument could be made that those ships are designed to have a bigger core, which would supply more power?
That would take away from room for other things. It’s a small ship, limited room, and limited structural integrity.
Launching projectiles, even with their own thrust capability should have an effect.
I’m not saying they need to build better physics into the game. They’re limited by the technology and cost efficiency of the real world.
I’m saying they need to quit “balancing” cap ships to be weaker and weaker, giving small groups in cheap ships the power to kill them.
It’s too much investment to keep being hammered down so much.
Alternatively, if they want to keep making them weaker and ignoring the investment, they need to compensate cap pilots that have invested so much time, isk and rl money into them.
For example, free skill extractors so we can reallocate those skills into stuff that ccp approves of, since they obviously don’t approve of cap ships anymore. Hell, make it so we can’t sell the injectors after we extract cap skills.
You can, however, shut off the mwd, which makes them much easier targets.
As for ehp, that depends on skill. If we’re talking fully skilled, they’re on par with destroyers. Speed wise, on par with frigates, and damage wise on par with destroyers.
Each squad is considered one entity for suppression tactics, but you do have to kill all 9 for the killmail.
Technically, yes they can warp back to the carrier if it leaves grid, but remains in system and undocked. Not really relevant to the discussion though.
I would suggest keeping the sarcasm and anger out of the conversation, as it degrades the points being made.
The point was already defined at my first and third post. There is no further discussion to this. This isn’t being changed. A CSM has already answered. The community wants this. Everything else is just chatter and a distraction, such as you thinking you can somehow tell my emotional state from behind a screen. We’re done here.
Words are pretty telling. You can pretend otherwise, but you’re only fooling yourself.
They make choices based on community feedback. There are a lot of people that want cap ships to be useless or removed.
The only way to combat that is to argue against it in a constructive manner. In most cases in life, logic wins.
Eve makes world records due to cap fights, so they aren’t going to remove them. They’re making it harder to stockpile them, sure. We don’t know how they intend to “rebalance” them yet, so hopefully adding in comment from the perspective of actually using them will help.
Most of the whiners are not cap pilots, and probably have never even seen them on field. They hear about carrier ratting, but don’t want to invest in it, so they want that income taken away.
They hear about people dropping caps on their fleets, so they want that threat taken away.
In the end, the vast majority of people against cap ships are only against it because they’re lazy and want their niche to be the most powerful available.
We do know how they intend to rebalance them. Fighters have been nerfed. Titan and Supers got an HP nerf. Clearly caps are too powerful and CCP is trying to bring them in line.