Fitting Advise for Tornado

PvP Gameplay Center PvP Ships & Modules
1

I am trying my hand and getting together some Attack BC fits so I ( and corpies) can harass a hostile group that is mining a moon pull in a system near where we live. The idea is to warp in to various snipe spots, take out a ship or two and then warp out, wait a bit come back to another snipe spot and rinse an repeat.

Generally this group run procurers with a porpoise boost and have a couple of PVP ships on standby, last time they have a Prophecy, a couple of Caracals, a cloaking Sabre and Rapier.

My assumption here for the procurer is that their weakest resists are EM and Explosive (before boosts and any tank), mainly EM for the Porpoise and so I am looking at the Tornado and Oracle as they can do those damage types (Hybrid to Kin/Thm.

I came up with this fit.

Tornado

[Tornado, Tornado Sniper Fit]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Target Painter II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Passive Targeter II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Nuclear L

Medium Ionic Field Projector I
Medium Targeting System Subcontroller I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Republic Fleet Fusion L x430
Targeting Range Script x3
Optimal Range Script x6

  • With my skills has a lock range of 146km which is fine

  • Ammo range (Nuclear) is 120km / 83.5km which again is fine

  • I went for Nuclear as does most amount of Explosive damage and is long range. However according to PYFA against a standard high sec procurer fit I had, it will only do just over 80 DPS from between 120/140km.
    image

  • Quake give me rubbish range (18.7 / 83.5)

  • Tremor give very good range but the -75% tracking I think will be a major issue) and even if it didnt it offers less DPS than Nuclear at range.

This could be a case of simply the Tornado is the wrong ship for the job, certainly open to advice here but how can i get the best damage profile between 120/140km

Also, whats the different between Volley and DPS, does this picture below means that when it does fire it will hot for 4624 Damage but as the artillary is slow that equates to 279DPS (which seems real low to me).

image

2

oracle ?

3

Use Republic Fleet EMP. You’re using Artillery, which doesn’t care about DPS. The way Artillery works is by dealing extremely high alpha strike damage. If you want DPS, use a Catalyst with Blasters, but Artillery’s focus is the first volley damage.

4

@Scoots_Choco EMP is short range ammo though no?

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https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Projectile_ammunition

Proton then

6

Why would you use any ammo that does less damage?

7

You probably want to use EMP, Fusion or possibly Phased plasma. Those are the three high damage T1 ammos. You’ll get enough range with them if you do it right.

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I found some of the responses here a bit confusing, but that’s my own lack of experience, which I think is greater than yours.
However, are you doing this yourself, meaning with alts?
If I were doing it that way, meaning me and a number of copies of my self I would take out the ship giving boosts first (please yell at me is this is idiotic) and then warp out past Dscan range (if possible). Then come back for the other ships to a different spot.
The difference between alpha strikes and DPS has always confused me, but @Scoots_Choco might have just cleared that up. So I have another question, with an alpha strike, it’s only the first shot? If so are the next shots weaker? And if that’s the case, why, and does that make them DPS?
See? I’m friggin lost on this.
What you are doing sounds like a lot of fun to me, and while I don’t think I have the skills for the sort of range you are talking about, it’s a mater of time till I do.
I suspect though for me just getting ships like Tornados where I want them would be my biggest challenge.

9

Alpha strike is just the first volley. The intent being that you kill the target in a single shot. Afterwards, everything else is just referred to as a volley or shot, or whatever else you want to call it.

Volleys =/= DPS.
DPS stands for “damage per second”, if you do 100 damage in a single hit, but it takes you 100 seconds to cycle the gun to fire the next shot, your “DPS” is 1 damage per second, split across 100 damage chunks every 100 seconds.

It honestly sounds like you’re trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be.

10

I’m not, I understood DPS, but not alpha, especially it being only the first shot.
If you do that first shot and then turn your guns off, does turning them back on make another alpha?

11

Ok, forget the phrase “alpha strike” or “volley”, just refer to them as a “hit.” Just stop.

2 Likes
12

technically yes

13

Technically unrelated.

Alpha strike means the ability to perform damage that overcome the defense of the target before it adapts.

1 Like
14

It’s null, not hisec and in range of structure.

Fit posted by OP, with short range ammo, has around 350 DPS at 100 KM range and 5768 volley. Lets assume this is maximum range they gonna try to engage. Structure warp disruptor has 210 KM range. Even if they gonna attack in straight line from structure (refinery → belt → tornados) probably still will be in range. PYFA claims that it will take ~29 seconds to lock tornado by athanaor. Rate of fire linked tornado (with all skills on lvl 5) is 16.6s. Tornado will lock in Procurer in 4 s. If they gonna time everything right, they should have enough time for two volleys before needed to bounce to another bookmark.
Assuming that Procurers will have 50k EHP (well tanked fit) and perfect scenario (all shoots it target as per PYFA numbers) you need at lest 9 tornados to take one Procurer in one volley. If lucky maybe gonna get chance for 2-3 runs.

This theory crafting assumes that there is only miners, and one person controling structure. Most generous scenario you gonna get. Remember, it’s null. If enemy has proper ship on field it will take only few seconds to burn to your fleet and bubble you.

@Giddy_McFee
It’s up to you if you want to field over billion of isk to take out few barges. In attack that can fail at any second. In my opinion. Not worth it.

All of this is theory crafting, not really talking from experience. If someone more experienced claims I’m wrong, it’s probably true. I just wanted to somewhat explain situation since it seems that OP is totally clueless.

PS. I have no knowledge, no experience in bomber warfare. But I would suggest to look into bomber runs. It looks more promising and reasonable than trying to pull of HS gank in null.

15

@Small_Kitty_Paws thanks for that analysis, you make good points and I didnt consider what defences the structure has (I will scan it just to see).

I just wanted to try and harras these people, it’s annoying having them moon mine where they are moon mining lol

16

Idea came to mind. You mentioned that your corp managed to get around 30 people in fleet. Why don’t just grab bunch of cheep gank catalysts or something similar, jump into middle of mining fleet and blast as much as you guys manage before they manage to kill you?

Cost should be low and if you manage to bubble miners, there should be enough time to cause some damage. Only issue with this idea is that structure can launch bombs.

I would scan enemy refinery, see what type of bomb launcher they use (T1 or T2), go to test server with one friend and see if you can make catalyst fit (or whatever ship you gonna use) that will survive at least one bomb. It should be possible with one or two tank modules. But if you have access to own structures is easier to test that just rely on numbers

1 Like
17

But if they use bombs, wont they pop their own ships as well?

18

That was really really cool, thank you.
Even if I had nine characters I couldn’t do that in the time allowed, I just don’t have the reflexes.
I also didn’t take into account a lot of other stuff, especially the station itself.
I think from reading that I would first fail by being too frantic with all the window switching, then if I actually managed to get the targeting and shooting to happen correctly I would likely lose most of my ships by failing to warp them out for the same reason. There are a lot of people who do multiboxing like this with no problem, I’m not one of them, at least not yet.

2 Likes
19

Huh? This isn’t about multiboxing. At lest that’s what I assumed. Here some context:

@MB_ThePhotographer Of course they will damage own ships. But from what I understand, one upwell bomb is not near enough to kill procurer (pyfa says it’s above 5k volley damage).

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@Small_Kitty_Paws that seems like more bang for our buck, i think i will try that route first.

And no, this isnt multiboxing