Fix market sell price mechanics

This has been the way the game has operated for 19 years. Why, suddenly, is this an issue?

Doesn’t mean it is the way it should continue work. The game changes and evolves all the time, why not considering making it better? Does this market mechanic makes sense to you? Would you have designed it this way? What are the benefits of the current mechanics vs what is being proposed?

It’s a question of resources. This has been the way the game has been for 19 years. To make this change, you’re going to pull people off of other things that are being worked on to work on this instead, and I don’t think that’s a valid use of resources. There are already warnings and pop-ups galore for market related items, just not this specific instance of altering an existing buy order. The number of times this likely happens on a daily basis is pretty low.

I just don’t see the point. I can ask if they can work on it, but I’m not going to push it beyond that because I don’t think it’s important enough to focus on.

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That’s certainly fair and understandable. Much appreciated.


I wish that IMPLEMENTATION was changed because it makes no sense to start with.

The only reason FOR is money laundering.

Market manipulation is not a acceptable reason. manipulation of market is on the opposite something that prevents the market from fulfiling its role.

nobody cares.

You are the one stretching the terms and claiming people said things they did not say.
Go ■■■■ yourself.

Always has been.
Eve is known for its stupid implementation choices. That’s actually what makes the “learning curve” : because you first need to accept some stupid nonsense, like this one.
Or like, needing to press V every 10s in WS.
Or previously when people could place BO without the fund to pay them.
Or like you are in “high security” but still people can shoot you. (the problem being the name, not the red safety)
Or like the celestials don’t move (which however makes sense wrt bookmarks ^^ )

You know, all those nonsense you have to accept in order to play the game.

It was also a question of performance. The way it’s done now is faster, so less of a stress on the DB. But those matters have been less important with the increase in server performances.

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Why not? It’s often useful to manipulate certain small markets for fun and/or profit.

Such a delightful chap.

If every player that has ever played this game has accepted them, it’s clear that they are no real barrier to enjoying the game.

Stick a post up in the small things thread if you wish, but I can think of at least a dozen other things of more pressing concern to tinker with.

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I answered just after that. Learn to read.


Learn logic. (see survivor bias)

your statement here supposes - incorrectly - that one purpose of a market is not manipulation. While this is a common ideological misconception, it is entirely incorrect. If you want a free market, you must have the freedom to manipulate it. This is part of the criticism of capitalism inherent in the design of Eve.

While it’s possible that survivor bias is a factor, I’d counter that any MMO that has been in continuous operation for nearly 20 years is objectively successful. If your argument is that this - pretty minor - inconvenience has been holding Eve back all these years, my response would be that it has held it back in so small a way as to be almost entirely impossible to differentiate from irrelevance.

If you have a more substantive argument to put forward in response, please do enlighten me.

It is actually the idea of target manipulation, to go against the goal of a market.

It’s the opposite, free market implies no distortion of reality, so no market manipulation.

That’s not a counter. That’s just more nonsense.

Learn to read, that will avoid you from doing a strawman.

Um, they do. It’s called buyer beware. You cannot create a mechanism to protect people from themselves. RL example, In Australia, one market regulator created a scam website to sell the air above people’s houses. That’s right. The airspace above their houses. People flocked to the website and then got a warning about scams. The public outrage at NOT being able to buy the air was overwhelming and people cried “how dare they do this”.

People are stupid. People make dumb decisions but then demand someone else pays for it. Sorry, mate. You stuffed up. Learn from it and move on.

I have to admit I fail to see the logic of those defending the current mechanics.

So in real life:
(1) you walk into a store, you see an item selling for $100, you decide to purchase it and somehow manage to pay $10,000 for it (like the system or owner allows you to do this). You realize your mistake, but walk away, don’t complain anyway, and keep shopping here?
(2) You want to buy 100 share from a public company with the asking price at at $100/share. You go to your online broker and accidentally bid $10,000, so you pay $1,000,000 + fees, but still rate your broker 5 star?

This is how the EVE market works today. How does this makes sense? It is what it is and sure we can suck it up. But why not fix this and make the game better? Or at least recognize something is broken? I get that new features or other enhancements need to be taken care of first.

You made a mistake.

You can now boycot the market as it ‘scammed’ you, rate it a 1 star and only use contracts and direct trades from now on, but I don’t think that would be wise.

You’re conflating what OP is talking about - fat fingering his changing his buy order - with every other kind of transaction in the game. In all of the situations you point out, the game would give you a warning pop up that something isn’t right and give you the chance to verify you want to do what you did. This is one rare situation where there is no pop up.

How often does this happen, honestly? How often does it happen where the person who ■■■■■■ up actually has the money to cover what they did? Most of these transactions will fail because the person doesn’t have the cash and there’s no harm done.

In the end, as I noted before, I can’t justify spending a lot of time trying to get yet another pop up added to the market because we haven’t added enough pop ups to stop people from making mistakes. At some point, it’s gotta be on the user.

Or maybe you could read instead of pretending people ask for a popup ?

The implementation is bad, not the lack of popup

What’s wrong about the implementation?

The OP walked in on the market, proclaiming that they were buying up to 129 Enduring stasis webifiers for the price of 4.7 million ISK each.

I sometimes do the same thing with low buy prices and end up buying only 2 or so items, rather than the full 129, because the standing sell orders asked for more than I was paying.

Not the case for the OP, he was willing to pay more than enough for the owners of the first 129 sell orders to happily agree on the price he offered.

And if he didn’t want to offer that price, he should be more careful next time.

THAT is wrong.
He claimed he was willing to puchase them UP TO that price.

The fact that the implementation is made as such he wants them exactly at that price is a nonsense.

No he was not.
He literally said he did not want to.


How stupid can you be to exactly make him say the opposite of what he said ?

Unrelated. Mistakes are made all the time, you can be careful and still make them.

You can say the same thing about people who died from having their neck cut by the metal traffic barrier. “They wanted to be stopped, next time they should be more careful”.
Idiot. The implementation was bad, period.

Let’s really be careful about the scope of the issue here guys.

If you go to the market and want to buy 69 things, you right click on the cheapest price and buy 69 of them. You can’t alter the price. You pay what you clicked on.

If you want to place a buy order for 69420 Isk, you click on the create buy order button. If you fat finger an extra 000000 onto the price, a pop up comes up to prompt you that you made a mistake.

The issue only occurs if you are amending an already existing buy order. There is still a warning showing you that you are way over the normal price, but this time there is no pop up.

It’s such a tiny, miniscule, issue that I really don’t think it’s worth the number of words already devoted to it, let alone any more.

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This seems a pretty valid take. I would like to gently point out though that “this has been the way the game has been for 19 years” isn’t a reason that it should continue to stay this way.

I’d agree its a pretty low stakes issue, but it would just be a super nice quality of life thing for everyone that’s active on the markets.

How is the client supposed to know the difference between a fat finger, a scam, or a legitimate buy order? The best you are going to get is a pop up. There is no other way to fix this that won’t cause more problems than it solves. Nowhere else in the game does the market bar you from doing something stupid, it only provides warnings and requires confirmation.

Do you actually play this game?

No. The best you are doing, is using a correct implementation.
Which is precisely the point here, as explained in the OP.

Please learn to read before giving your opinion. OP complains about the implementation :

That’s why I said,