Fixing EVE starts with you


(Dal Shooth) #1

It is so hard to put into words what you’re trying to get across to people who don’t share the same idea of entertaining content within EVE. Some of the best times I’ve had in EVE was with a few good trusted friends trying to accomplish the impossible. I wanted to share some of my experiences with old and new EVE players and even the devs in hopes that my experiences could enlighten others.

EVE Memory 1
4 guys and I evicted a 30-man corp out of a C2 wormhole purely through hole control and pod eviction. While this was the most entertaining content I’ve ever experienced in any game, it was also the most time demanding and exhausting content generation in EVE I’ve ever experienced. However, it’s one of those moments in EVE that is on the top of the list as the most entertaining moments in EVE to date. A bonus is those pilots I flew with that weekend are now long-lasting friends that I will know the rest of my life.

EVE Memory 2
Back in 2010 I used to live out of my carrier logged out in space in Outer Ring running combat anoms alone. People say EVE PvE is one of the most boring aspects of the game, and I would agree for the most part. However, I challenge anyone to grab their main and a couple scout alts, load up a carrier with a cloak, loaded with scout ships, bombers, cynos, and a combat site running ship. Then place yourself by yourself in NPC 00 with no stations and hostiles everywhere. Then try to run sites in the area without docking for 30 days. Granted the dank ticks don’t exist, but the rush you get when hostile fleets come hunting for you and having to rely on your knowledge of EVE mechanics and proper scouting was worth every missed tick.

EVE Memory 3
I got into the drug game. I had my dickstar setup with all the reactions ready for manufacturing drugs. Once I learned that you must get Cytoserocin that only exists in SOV null I started planning how I would infiltrate their homes and steal their gas. I started getting blops cyno chains setup, (this is before prospects) and I would bridge my covops hauler and a custom gas cloud mining rapier deep into SOV 00 alone. If I was successful in mining their gas I would only need to be there for a few game hours to get what I needed to run a strong BPO. But the process of infiltrating a large 00 blocs space and running their sites was quite exhilarating and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Now let’s take this story in another direction…

EVE Memory 4
I used to watch those big 00 fleet battles on Youtube. Being new to the game, I remember saying to myself, “I want to be there one day.” I spent MANY years and man hours building a lowsec corp with good PvP pilots, and worked my way up the ladder of politics and got this corp into a well-known lowsec alliance. Every political move I made felt like progress, and when I sat in a 256-man fleet with 2 other blue 256-man fleets, and successfully defended a Titan from the entirety of EVE, I knew I had accomplished what I set out to do.

One doesn’t simply leave a corp you help build from the ground up.

What I found over the years is I became worse at the game (mechanics wise). I became a desk jocky for all intents and purposes, managing many alliance level programs and spreadsheets. I spent more time worrying about how other people enjoyed the game more than how I enjoyed the game. It turned me into what could be called a “bitter vet”. This process is natural however, but not what I wanted to turn into. I remember trying to “take a break” from leadership and go do those things I stated above, and I failed miserably due to being so rusty. It was heartbreaking and I felt I was locked into the world I created for the sake of getting into the big battles.

That was the day I retired from EVE, and my name entered the long list of burnt out CEO leadership types that EVE supposedly needs to survive. Or does it?

In my opinion as an ex-CEO and ex-alliance leader of a larger lowsec organization, a return to playing this game with a few good men, and not worrying about how I can make someone else’s game time enjoyable is exactly what SOME people need to be reinvigorated to play the game again. The effect of this would in turn create the small gang atmosphere that once was so prevalent in EVE and created many memorable micro engagements that will stay in your memories years to come.

Winter is Coming! Hopefully it will bring the motivation that people in similar situations like myself have long missed over the years in the ever evolving EVE environment.


(Kaelynne Rose) #2

Ccp only cares about VIRTUAL REALITY at this point. They siphon all of eves income to go to VR.

Source: all of ccps recent fanfest/vegas/major interviews with the media/etc


(Dinsdale Pirannha) #3

What game mechanics do you expect to change that will rekindle your interest in the game. I have heard of nothing of significance changing. We know the cartels will get more goodies, but do you know of anything else changing?


(Memphis Baas) #4

Sounds like he’s suggesting a focus on small fleet PVP / small corp leadership.


(Dal Shooth) #5

I don’t feel it’s about 1 specific mechanic. I still believe I can find enjoyment in the game. The sandbox is still available and the mechanics inside the sandbox still exist.

What I hoped to get across in my OP was I found most of the enjoyment and memorable moments in situations that didn’t involve the masses. Just a close group of bros chillen in coms, picking a path and moving forward with it.

Don’t get me wrong… Being part of a corp/alliance that left a mark in the EVE timeline is something to cherish and I enjoyed doing it, but it came with a price.

Only now after seeing all these changes coming to game from the sidelines and people expressing their displeasure with the up coming meta does my early memories of EVE remind me, while the EVE devs may be making some changes that could effect things negatively, there is always room for an individual to find their place in EVE and have a great time doing it.


(Caleb Seremshur) #6

The EVE universe would be very compelling in VR. It’s probably why we haven’t heard anything about LEGION for ages.


(Intar Medris) #7

I can imagine it. Think about sitting on your bridge using the motion controllers to interface with EVE instead of your mouse. Think of the immersion factor.


(Dal Shooth) #8

With VR becoming more prevalent, wouldn’t a gaming company want to capitalize or diversify? Why would people assume that if CCP shows interest in VR, that means they give 0 fucks about EVE?

I’m no game designer by any stretch of the imagination, but something tells me all these changes they are making to EVE are taking quite a bit of paid man hours. So either they are prepping to sell, or they actually still care about their work.

If EVE isn’t “paying the bills” so to say, as a business owner you would need to diversify or shut the doors. Hell they may make a great VR game that makes them millions, and then in turn there is a bigger slush fund for EVE development.


(Frostys Virpio) #9

The last time CCP changed some large aprt of EVE in a way to enable more small gang stuff, we got Fozzie SOV.

EDIT : Removed bad word I though would be censored by the forum…


(Dal Shooth) #10

I thought Fozzie SOV was a product of every tom, dick and hairy complaining about how 00 blocs could drop super fleets on the small organizations effectively forcing them to either rent or not play in the area.

Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.


(Frostys Virpio) #11

A key point of it was to let smaller group have a shot at it. The fact that large group also run Fozzie claws is a direct result of letting even a small gang be a threat to SOV. Everyone goes with fast response alpha ship because it let you blap the wand ship because small group didn’t want to have to commit anything big to SOV warfare.


(Nasar Vyron) #12

Malkanis’ Law:
“Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of ‘new players’, that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.”

The same can be said for anything implemented to benefit small entities within a game. As someone pointed out, Fozzie Sov was introduced to help smaller entities play the gang and break apart the large blocs. All it accomplished was condensing the blocs and having them adapt to the small, fast, hit and run tactics of small gangs. Which larger alliances can carry out with much more precision and over a larger area than any small entity could hope to accomplish themselves.

This condensing, btw, made worse by citadel defense mechanics which were which were implemented as is with the hope of protecting smaller entities from being hit in timezones they had no chance to defend. As well as suppressing the power gained by bringing capital ships to contest structures in a manner before a defense could be formed by the introduction of damage caps. All things combined have not actually helped the smaller entities but made the larger ones infinitely more safe - and STAGNANT.

That all said though. I agree small gang is more fun and engaging, but it has never actually had a place in sov. And balancing mechanics/ships should never be done in hopes to promote a single style of play as if it gains power over another it will be abused by the larger entities 100% of the time.


(Dal Shooth) #13

This is such a true statement. 00 SOV is for the people with the lack of motivation or desire to go do the difficult time consuming things with less warm bodies.

I was thinking about this today when I was replaying some of my comments in my head. Not every EVE player has the desire to do the tedious work to provide themselves entertainment, or the gaming time to spend hours and hours sitting at their PC. This is where SOV 00 shined with their hordes of F1 monkeys that could log in for a 2 hour cancer tidi fleet then log off and feel they accomplished something special. EDIT: When players feel they are doing something special in game they are paying subscription costs or earning it in game.

We should never kid ourselves into believing that the quote above is not going to be the standard every time. This game is beautiful in that it has niche’s or ecosystems for many different types of play styles, and to introduce one ecosystem to another is only going to create imbalance in that ecosystem and aggravate the people within it.

Fozzy SOV or as I call it 00 faction warfare was such a bad idea. Faction warfare mechanics are by far the worst mechanics I have ever tried to enjoy, with the key word being “I”. But if you look at the faction warfare map, there are people participating and I’m sure if CCP were to change it drastically, the forums would fill with piles of salt.

CCP should really start evaluating the space they provide as ecosystems if they aren’t already. Where you see success and/or participation in that ecosystem, encourage and create more mechanics to make it that more enjoyable. They should never allow an opposing ecosystem to influence another as it will only break both.


(Dal Shooth) #14

I wanted to add, since we are on the subject of 00 mechanics. 00 SOV holders love their big guns, and they love to smash ■■■■ with them. IMHO CCP should have made SOV structures cheaper, have less hit points and make them easier and quicker to deploy/destroy, with no reinforcement timers to take systems.

Next, and this may be a drastic approach, but since we are talking hypothetical why not… get rid of jump drives and force travel that can be monitored easier. Then the 00 SOV holders would play a RTS style of game. When one SOV holder starts pushing in their heavy assets in one direction, the other sov holder could push in another direction just as easy. Instead of ship assets (ISK/Loss ratio’s) always being the trade off. SOV itself could be the trade off as it can acquired just as quick and easy.

Random SOV FC: SOVa are pushing on our northern territory. It will be easier for us to form and hit their southern territory and take as many system of their systems as they took from us in the north.

or…

Random SOV FC: SOVa is pushing on our northern territory. Let’s let them push in a bit and we will close the door behind them and drop the hammer on their strike fleet.

You would have this fluid SOV map always changing day to day.
Anyways, just kind of thinking a loud since we are on the topic, and Im sure there are holes in that idea like swiss cheese.


(Jahan Gibran) #15

After 10 years in Eve and starting new chars over and over again during the past 5 years, I can only say: screw the other players unless you know what you want to do. This at a solid 1 liter of 40% vodka at the 4 hour mark so it’s gotta be true state. You can’t trust people unless you know where they live so you can punch them if they betray you. Otherwise they will be the end of you. Then you can pick the group you can relate to. People are dicks if they can get away with it, and it’s Eve, so you gotta learn to love it. After I screw up and have a corp break down on a spy robbing everything from everyone you can only cope with it or drink your ass off and learn of it to keep on playing. I chose the latter one (and making a ton of typos while at it fixing them as I go). Made some good friends in the game just to have them leave over something like that.

So eff it. I’ll just keep playing for another decade because I refuse to give up because of that. I’m a stubborn one because I got raised that way, and I WILL find a group that works like I feel is good. I don’t give a crap about time or chars spent. I’ve seen great things and crap things, and Eve is my witness I have loved all of it. The abuse, the victims, the good times and the bad. It’s been way better than my regular life, because of it. If you come half hearted into Eve, you will never break it.

/End drunken rant that I will regret later on


(Rexxar Santaro) #16

Fozzie SOV was a move to make SOV battles more strategical like “your turn, my turn”. It was an attempt to remove from this strategical MMORPG that old mechanic of arcade games like StarCraft or Warcraft3, when you had to perform that crazy “horde” marathon all around the map. Just check the evelopedia and remember the BoB’s “Clockwork” operation or enlighten new players about that.


(Giddy McFee) #17

A good post. Certainly got me thinking because over the years, and especially lately my interest in the game has plummeted. Somehow I got it in my head to chase that plex every month to pay for an account and so most things that I do were to generate ISK in some way, be it PI, ratting or exploration.

The wow moments have gone, the buzz of flying into null for the first time, my first sight of a titan, the camaraderie of small corp that wasn’t full of alts and where members worked towards a common task or goal together. It is time (for me at least) to re-evaluate. I’ve let the second account lapse to an Alpha, and I need to find a way out of this blue doughnut and into something else

The trick is finding something to ignite that feeling again for the game and I’ve no idea what will do that, I’ve moved from corp to corp recently trying to find that “thing” and I’ve not found it so I must be doing something wrong.

Perhaps going back to initial roots is the thing to try? Good luck in your quest should you decide to come back to eve.


(Dal Shooth) #18

Reading about it now. This was before my time, very interesting stuff.


(March rabbit) #19

Isn’t it pretty?

Now add time dilation to the package… :innocent:


(Dal Shooth) #20

If I could give you any advice regarding this…
In your travels I would assume you have made trustworthy relationships with other pilots. Start having conversations with them about your desires to find interesting content for yourself and see if any of them bite. If they do, be the leader they need, create the common ground for the operation and start working on the first step.

My EVE memory 1 would not have happened if it wasn’t for a “leader” telling me, “Go find a populated wormhole.” and that was it. Once I found one he went inside and contacted one of the inhabitants. He told them, “You have 24 hours to remove your corp from this wormhole.” Obviously the guy didn’t like that and said it wasn’t going to happen.

That’s when the planning started to control their static and by the end of the week the corp accepted our terms of surrender and we allowed each remaining pilot to leave out their static.

A fun tidbit…
Our terms of surrender were they could leave with one ship of their choosing each, but every other ship had to be flown to our dickstar shield and left un-piloted. I logged in after a short power nap and found my “leader” laughing his ass off with 30+ T1 cruiser’s sitting un-piloted outside our POS shield for us to scoop. So funny!!