For the few, rather than the many

[Fluffy_Moe]

Wotan, thing is, what you are looking for is FTP in a sub based game. Indeed very few people got to do that and as their numbers increase and plex supply starts to go down, + everything got more expensive due to inflation, things are getting a bit out of hand.

And you also nailed it when you identified the null sec ISK faucets as the main source of the problem. It got to a point now where not only is the ISK farming / plex manipulation rediculous but its kinda pointless to even go out to null sec anymore. There are no wars or large scale conflicts. In fact, ISK / Plex was recently used to avoid such and eliminate content. I won’t go into details here, plenty of posts about it on these and other forums, blogs, etc.

But no matter what you do, you will need to sub at least 1 or 2 characters. Alternatively, you can sub a 2nd toon for lesser time periods at a time which makes the gameplay more flexible because you don’t need to farm for full months sub on your primary for your 2nd one.

the alpha thing is a demo / trial, not really a full game experience. Remember how before you had 4 hours to activate PLEX or sub a toon from login time ? Well, its kinda like that except now you have unlimited time but on limited skills / ships / fits. So Alpha does serve that particular function.

[Wander_Prian]

I’m still amazed that people take plexing their account as an automatic right that they should get. It’s something you CAN do, if you are willing to do the work. It’s for those who have lot of time to put into the game.

[Galaxy_Pig]

@Dinsdale_Pirannha

Welcome to the reality of Eve, where years of meta-gaming by the null sec cartels, including gaining more and more influence with CCP devs and decision-makers, has resulted in the end-game you have described.

The entire meta of the game is geared now to servicing the desires of the null sec cartels, regardless of what the spin-masters inside the cartels and CCP will say.

Welcome to the reality of EVE, where whining about people who play the game better than you is the new meta.

[Wotan_Rexus]

Yeah, Good points Fluffy. Even just before I unsubbed last time (2 yrs back), we rented a Null-pocket, to start a revival of the Alliance we had going. We worked like dogs to transfer ■■■■ back and forth, tried to get into the whole system-upgrade stuff etc. But in the end, we could drag our 200 players down there. THey just didnt join us in the goals for it. Too much work and investment involved, for most players.
And in the end, the Alliance slowly broke down, some staying in Null, others doing the Snooze-cruise in HS mining/PvE. We simply couldnt keep the group going. Even with help from old PL-friends etc. it went tits up.
So some of the things suggested (like running anomals in Null) is really not a viable or easy way, unless youre really experienced, have all the systems BMd everywhere, or travel with an Armored division lol.

Its all so very easy, and yet so almost impossible to get into, unless you spend all waking hours on doing it. Or just get VERY lucky. Or if you know some very rich and generous players, from the old time.
Im still not convinced Im done with EVE. But neither am I convinced Ill ever come back to play for real. And thats awfull lol! How much is one of those Time-lapse-pills in Jita!? I need to reverse time 2½ yrs! ASAP! (Well at least in my brain!)

[Lady_Ayeipsia]

Your Kronos would be fine for incursions or L4. You are worrying over nothing. And truth be told, if you were truly new, you wouldn’t know or have the standings to even run L4s and high level incursions would be months off.

Why not try faction warfare? You can get back into the swing of things and make LP tuning Faction Warfare novice and small plexes in a frigate. Get use to flying in space. Get your overview and screen layout setup properly. Look for a group that accepts alphas and keep flying cheap. You will slowly earn isk. You will get to play EVE. You will get to contribute without paying and should be well enough off.

Then you can figure out if you wish to sub.

And honestly, you seem to want to be back to your old eve self without paying. That doesn’t happen. It could if you buy a month then start the grind, but you don’t want the grind. And if you don’t want the grind, then cheap frigates are the best which leads you back to faction warfare.

[Wotan_Rexus]

So, EVE is for the people in RL that can afford to sub. Or for the ones able to play a LOT daily, because they dont have a RL?
Cool story, bro lol. Try again, kid.

[Wotan_Rexus]

Hmm, perhaps…
Sad but probably true. And like someone else said, it may just not be for me anymore. Fairysnuff. No biggie. Its not like there Arent other games, in the genre. I just have a little withdrawal-symptoms and wanted to get back in the game I used to love. If it aint happening, Ill live. And so, Im sure, will you lol.

[Sindara_T_Soni]

@Wander_Prian

I’m still amazed that people take plexing their account as an automatic right that they should get. It’s something you CAN do, if you are willing to do the work. It’s for those who have lot of time to put into the game

This x1000

Some of the comments here remind me of the guy on the For Honor forums who complained that it wasn’t fair that he couldn’t access all of the legendary armour and weapons in the game or earn enough Steel to unlock all of the executions, emotes, effects, ornaments and prestige outfits … just because he could only play for 15 - 30 minutes a day.

[Galaxy_Pig]

Jeezussss… With SP farming now, you can play as an omega clone for basically free and it’s still not good enough for them.

This carebear entitlement is disgusting.

OP, learn to use commas correctly and then GET A JOB.

[Forseti_Valkyrie]

@Sequester_Risalo

CCP has nothing to do with plex prices. They do not benefit from highs or lows.

That’s extremely naive… PLEX is directly connected to game-time and micro-transactions which are what puts RL $$$ into their pocket… Do you think it would be more financially intelligent to require 3 Billion ISK for 500 PLEX or 1.5 Billion ISK?

At 3 Billion more people buy PLEX direct from CCP with plastic because they can sell it in-game for more ISK.

At 1 Billion less people are driven to buy PLEX direct from CCP because it is more attainable ratting/mining it in-game.

In theory 500 PLEX could cost LESS than just paying outright for a month’s subscription… Do you think that will ever happen? In a true player-driven economy it very well could, if for no other reason than to troll CCP.

Now, would you like to rethink your statement?

[Lena_Crews]

@Wotan_Rexus

So, EVE is for the people in RL that can afford to sub. Or for the ones able to play a LOT daily, because they dont have a RL?
Cool story, bro lol. Try again, kid.

That’s kind of true.

Eve used to ONLY by for those who subbed with real money (back when I started).

Then it was ONLY for those who subbed or earned enough to pay for Plex.

Now the full game is only for those who sub or earn enough to pay for plex… and an “eve light” (ALPHA) is available for those who just want to fool around without investing money or time in it.

[Wander_Prian]

Gee, love how you took what I said and took it to extremes.

Eve is for anyone who likes playing it. Be it with real money or with PLEX

BUT

Paying with PLEX is not something that you automatically get. You are supposed to work for it. It is supposed to be difficult and take time.

I’m not the one whining on the forums about how bad things are. Sorry kid, go back to Wow if you can’t handle it in here.

[Nasar_Vyron]

Actually there comes a point when plex can be considered too expensive and too cheap. What they want is a happy medium favoring the low side.

Reason being, when plex is horribly inflated people need to buy less of it to get what they want and fewer people will consider buying it to remove it from the market (they can’t really use that money until it’s used in game, that money is earmarked until that time - assuming they’re like any other company in this regard). While it attracts a few new buyers, those numbers are actually very low. It has been shown time over again that those that buy plex will do so at nearly any price (one can assume there is a floor to this), and those that don’t, typically wont ever or only on rare occasions such as plex sales.

The best case for CCP is to have it as low valued as the people paying cash are willing to accept. For the simple fact that they then need to turn around and buy more to purchase their injectors, hulls, modules, etc. This is why when we see plex spike CCP will typically release a sale in an attempt to stabilize the market (not necessarily push it down), while also knowing that the spike will also make more consider purchasing plex especially at a discounted rate.

[Dirk_Kajhone]

@Wotan_Rexus

Interesting…

So youre saying, that with logging in, with my Alpha-clone, I can make 1.5 bill easy, with only T1 ships/items?

Hmm, I find that hard to believe…

I think the significant point is that, in the past, once your trial was done you could not log in and play without subbing.

Now, you seem to have an issue with the fact that you can log in and play, for free, but that you do not have full access to the same things as a paid subscriber.

It does not matter if ISK is harder or easier to get as Alpha, since previously you had no option to play free at all (on your existing account). You now have the option to play, with a limited ship and skill set, and earn ISK at whatever rate you find amusing, until you accumulate enough to Plex the account if you so wish. Or you can sub, which is exactly the same as before.

Soon, you will have the option to use more ships, more skills, and up to 20.5 million of your SP to play for free. You can earn ISK to plex, or simply play without plexing, or sub, whatever suits your fancy.

ISKflation and increasing PLEX costs has been in the game since day 1. It comes from having an endless ISK faucet turned on in the form of bounties and mission payouts. Nothing new there.

Basically, CCP has given you the option to do something for free that you previously had to pay for, and your response is: “Yes, but why didn’t you give me everything for free?”.

[yellow_parasol]

i don’t remember when they didn’t, tbh…

[yellow_parasol]

@Dirk_Kajhone

Now, you seem to have an issue with the fact that you can log in and play, for free, but that you do not have full access to the same things as a paid subscriber.

True. I forgot. It’s basically OneMoreNerf.

Every generation someone new comes and declares that the previous isn’t good enough.

it’s a ■■■■■■■ law.

[Nana_Skalski]

@Wotan_Rexus

freelancers, that already had enough isk to fuel the next couple of years with Plex.

I login sometimes to see all this PLEX rise in value as you stare at it.

[Bjorn_Tyrson]

@Fluffy_Moe

its kinda pointless to even go out to null sec anymore. There are no wars or large scale conflicts. In fact, ISK / Plex was recently used to avoid such and eliminate content. I won’t go into details here, plenty of posts about it on these and other forums, blogs, etc.

looks at the drone lands burning and rhe domino effect of conflicts coming out of it

Riiiiiiight. No wars at all in null. Not like we had a 1t isk battle a week ago. Or a smaller battle that saw over 200 capitals deployed yesterday.

Nope, null is all sunshine and rorqual farming while we give each other big sloppy blue hugs.

[Wotan_Rexus]

I kinda expected quite a bit of resistance to my views on EVE. And some of it is warranted. No matter what is true or not about EVE, what remains is this:
I played for a little over 5 yrs, never complaining about paying for it. You do the math. Thats around 15EU per month for over 5 yrs. NO game, not even Star Citizen, taxes their players like this. The fact that you have an option to slave for the sub monthly (back then), was also a bit overstated. Im no genius, but I aint no noob either, and back then I found it VERY hard to have a 100mill per hour-isk earning. And I even lost a 3 bill isk Proteus in INcursions, because our Logi DCed, in the middle of a site. So yeah, that sort of thing happens in EVE. I get that.

But tbh, the whole “Its SOOO easy to earn isk in EVE”-argument is really tiresome. How I know this, is by watching all the young people I showed EVE to (I work with young people in RL). Ive showed the game to 10 of them, over 2 yrs. And they were really hyped about it. I taught them some basics and gave them a little starter-capital and some cheap ships to fool around in. They played for a week (few hours each day), and then they left the game. Told me its just too hard to reach a level, where you can start to enjoy PvP in a good ship, too comprehensive make heads or tails about it, and too expenssive for them to play it.

The obvious reply to that, is “Git Gud!”. Or “Read the many guides!”. Or “join an alliance” etc.
All that takes a lot of time, and that time youre still paying for with RL money. And once youve spent like 2-3 months getting comfortable with the game-mechanics and finding some relations in the game, to help you take the next step, then you have to grind to keep subbed, instead of going on that awesome Null-sec expedition, or entering that juicy C5-WH you just found. And dont reply “If you found a C5 youre rich already!”. NOTHING about earning in WHs is easy, unless youre a skilled veteran at it. And that dosent happen, unless you fly with someone that teaches it to ye.

All these arguments are pointless, really. Because still, we see that the game is STILL for the few, and not the many. Still we see the playing crowd stay roughly the same size. Still, new people joining, dont stay for long. Still all the people I flew with, 2 yrs ago, STILL Arent back. And still Im left with the option to pay in RL money (Again), to just get a chance, that I in 2 months time, might have it all set up to play for free (well, the grind is still there…).

This is SOOO much more logical to you guys, because youre already in it. Its SOOO much more simple, because you have that knowledge. Like I had, before I left. I used to say the same as you did, back then. But it STILL remains EVE for the few, not the many. No amount of trolling or hardcore arguments can change that, imo. Im just sad Im on the outside looking in. And in knowing, that to get in, Ill have to rob a bank, quit my job, scam my way back, while bamboozling players to help me out, for months, if I just want to be part of the game in a tolerable way.
So no, the grind is NOT the game. For me at least. Running that same L4 mission over and over again. Mining that Astroid field everyday or running that scanning-round (and losing stuff to pirates doing it).

I like hardcore games. I played the old DayZ mod for yrs too. Games HAS to be challenging. But it also needs temperance, so it dosent kill the infants, who try to keep the game alive. It also needs to reward their trusty and loyal players, instead of bleeding them dry, through crypto-currency and in-game-mechanics.
And no, I dont really care how you view it. The fact remains, that EVE is still a small exotic niche-game, for a relative few crypto-harvesters, some diehard space-geeks with more isk than sense (or vice versa), and the few daredevils, that have the time and money in RL, to try it out. Imagine an EVE, with more young people. Imagine EVE, where old veterans could return, because they dont have to pay to play anymore. Instead we have a game, where very few return for real. And where new players that stay in the game, can be counted on an abacus.

Deny it at your own leissure.

[yellow_parasol]

The easier it becomes the more low qualitiy players will join. We already see how this works out, but on a smaller scale.

In the past, the hard start was a barrier of entry, keeping this game quite exclusive. Now with Alphas, we see more and more people wanting more and more stuff. We see an overall decrease of IQ too, because where you had to put your mind into it before, now most things are so “easily accessible”, that the below average joe can grasp them. No serious player here wants this. Before, the game was a long term game satisfying for anyone who was cut out to persist, now the game turns into an Arcade game for the fun of the primitives.

I don’t even assume you can fo.low this, but i don’t care anyway. What you’re asking for has no room in this game and there will be massive opposition. Your justifications for why you believe your idea is good, and your childish blaming about how we vets are rich and blabla, is all baseless. We know that it’s easy to make isk even as a new player, even without the grind and without buying plex with cash. If they can’t figure it out themselves, they have no room here. If they want everything quickly, they have no room here. It’s how it is. Not because of us, but because of the game itself.

And here’s a saying that i rarely use. It’s a common phrase used in the past, most often thrown at those who whine about how hard it is to do whatever they weren’t cut out for:

Go back to WoW.