For the few, rather than the many

Communications Center General Discussion
101

There’s a bit of an unrealistic expectation here as well. Eve is 15 years old. While it could use more players… I can’t think of many MMO’s that have survived for 15 years… let alone started an upward trajectory in active players at that stage.

I don’t think that’s an eve thing. I wouldn’t play eve as an older person if I hadn’t played back in 2007-2009. The idea of players with a 15 year head start on me in a game doesn’t make me want to try it. I don’t particularly think adding more F2P options (like they’re doing by expanding Alpha clones) is going to work particularly well. I don’t think its even really the “free vs play” part that drives people off… I think it’s the fact that unlike other games where you can grind for a while to reach the “end game” levels… there is no end game. There is a perception that you cannot catch up. That feeling of being ridiculously far behind feels like the biggest wall for players.

Heck, I have less SP than you do. And with 100m+ skill points you still reference the “hardcore crowd” that’s in front of you. I think there might be ways to help with new players not feeling like there’s an insurmountable gulf between them and the vets. But I don’t think the solutions I’ve seen proposed (both by CCP and players) do all that much to address that.

102

Yeah, could be. Its really hard to know for sure, what is truth in this, though. I think we all have some facts right, in our views, and some of what I/we say, lack maybe aspects we Arent aware of etc.

What Id like for EVE to be, is a hard and huge game, that makes you go through the hardships relatively fast, so you can start the path to greatness in the massive endgame, where things REALLY get hard and time-consuming. Imagine if you didnt have to slowly build up your corp for years, before reaching a level where you can get into the Cap-ship-game, Territorial wars, Top Incursions, or WHing. I played for a little over 6 yrs total, and I still have little clue about Null-sec or WHs. I know even less, after I left the game 2 yrs ago. The road to reach those end-game things, is simply too long and hard.

That dosent mean that if it gets easier to reach it, it will be easy. Quite the opposite. The end-game stuff in EVE is so dominated by the old powers of EVE, that its nigh on impossible to get near and to challenge. So instead of a great reward, when youve slaved away in HS/LS for years, you reach a level where you can try out the endgame stuff, but then you hit a wall of ingrown monopolies, blops from hell and all sorts of things.
If more people, could reach a state where they could afford to invest in Null-sov, citadels, caps etc. And they could reach it faster, with a little less cost, I think it would really make more people stay in the game. And if that happens, they would also keep recommending it to other new players etc.

103

That’s exactly who EvE is for. Not sure what you’re having trouble understanding :confused:

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104

Im having trouble understanding why youre even here?
My views have slightly changed, after some friendly people helped me understand how the game works now versus 2 yrs ago. You claim to know exactly how things are, and that EVE is exactly how its supposed to be. I disagree. I think there are still room for improvement. And I base it on the low online count of active players, and the fact, that all the young people Ive tried to get to play EVE, find it simple retarded. That dosent mean it it, though. Im just the messenger. But if you want EVE to keep fresh and growing, you have to take it serious. Not just do the “This is how EVE is! Like it or GTFO, mofo!”. Its not representative of your true IQ-levels, Im sure.

Instead, use your words. Try and not be personal and give us your thoughts and ideas. Id love to hear it, in such a respectful form. In the end, if EVE was for the many, why are so few playing?

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105

Can you stop with all the butt-hurt please you’re ruining my coffee.

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106

It was a reply to a troll sir. If you dont want your coffee ruined, then stop watching things that does that for ye. Noone forces you to be here.
PS. you seem butt-hurt about your coffey. #HypocracyIsReal

107

Just subscribe and pay the people who make this great game happen. General concesus is that EvE is not a F2P game for the majority of players. It can be done, but its hard and its not a human right to play EvE for free.

108

Except that i’m not a troll. I lack the posting history for that. You, though, aren’t as smart as you think you are, and that’s why you cop out by calling me a troll.

Are you a carebear?

You want to be perceived as a good person, but you aren’t one.
You can’t deal with direct opposition.
You have an overly sensitive ego.
You think everything’s an opinion.

Now let’s get on with this.

This game isn’t meant for the many. Never was, never will be. If you really knew EVE, then you’d understand that. Being able to play a game is a priviledge, not a right. The game isn’t expensive, and anyone who can not afford it definitely has bigger problems than being able to flee from the real world. Your posts are full of holes and contradictions, filled with meaningless drivel.

Example? The people you talk about say it’s retarded. Well, so be it. They have opinions, and now we need more information, like:

  • What kind of people are they?
  • Why do they think it’s retarded?
  • How long have they even tried?
  • Why is “retarded” the only thing we get to hear?
  • Why are people, who believe a complex game like EVE is retarded, even considered as valid source of information?
109

Never claimed it was, sir. And I HAVE paid through the nose to play this game. 6 yrs of subbing with RL money. I loved supporting it. But at some point, you start to think "Hmm, I dont really feel like supporting a game, that dosnt improve on some of the parameters mentioned here in the thread. You make EVE out to be a holy grail, that should be untouchable by critique, which dosnt improve anything.
I give my views here, after being a stauch supporter of the game for years. And after Ive been trying to get others to play it too. But all the new players Ive had try EVE out, all left again. Not because we didnt do our job to support them and create training-fleets and activities, but because the game slowly died out for them, while they didnt feel they got their moneys worth. Whether they its a fair conclusion is arbitrary. What remains is the fact, that EVE STILL have issues with renewing the game and repopulating the amazing game they made, and thats just sad.

NO game is worth more than 5 yrs subbing. And the new generations wont play games, where they have to work hard to even keep playing. Trust me. I work with the new generations in my work, and they aint gonna be future EVErs, as it is right now.
Gaming has been expanding to ridiculous levels, the last 10 yrs. SOOO many games to chose from, when you look for fun outside work/studies. Competition in the industry is fierce. If you dont develop your game to support those facts, the game will slowly die out. Thats been a fact in the industry many times before. The fact that EVE have survived so long, is to the fact that their main bulk of staunch fans, are very loyal, generous and supportive. EVE is a lifestyle for that fan-group, which is making it even harder, for new people to get into it and be part of the EVE-culture. THats the real weakness. And its strength as well.

Why not address that dilemma and find solutions, rather than just silencing the opposition? I firmly think, one element dosnt exclude the other. Its really a balancing of how the entry-level versus veteran-levels work and correspond naturally together. Right now, I find it hard to see any balance. With market monopolies, Alliance-dominance and a really intricate and relatively complex system for people to get into, to even fund the Omega-clone, in a stable and easy way. Im now aware, that some of the new things DO aim to make it easier, and Im glad to see it. Seems like CCP agrees with me, that they need to work on it, to improve it. Or they wouldnt expand the Alpha-clonething etc. And they wouldnt have made it easier to earn isk, like some of you claim it is.

Personally I dont mind paying a little, now and again. But the inflation is moving too fast, so it becomes too time-consuming or expensive, for casual or new players. But right now, Im just trying to find my old EVE-spark. I miss the game, but cant seem to find it right now. BUt we´ll see. Maybe Im deep in Null-sec soon, having laughs etc. Im just not sure itll happen yet.

110

It’s not hypocritical to be butt-hurt if the problem is an important one, like Coffee.

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111

Well, if it helps your fragile mind, Id be happy to retract my “troll-labeling”. But you sure lack both common sense and civility. You threw the first stone, sir.

Im clearly not a capacity of anything. Im a complete noob on many levels, and I often talk about things in game-fora, that might already be fixed. If so, I appologize. But my motive is clean. I like to talk about games, that matter to me. Im thinking out loud. THat dosnt mean Im omniscient or rude.

Ive even admitted when I was wrong in this thread, even though you cant seem to do the same. I like hearing from people that know more than me, which is what I was hoping to happen in this thread. And luckily Ive met a few people here, that are quite cool to talk to about these things. Alas, youre still not one of them, though I hope to change it, if I can.
But let me answer your quieries:

  1. In SOME ways Im a carebear atm. Till I find my combat legs again. Why? Is that not allowed in EVE anymore?

  2. Ofc I want to be perceived to be a good person, you dont? And why am I not good?

  3. Sure I can deal with opposition. Im dealing with it, right now. What I lack, is patience with trolls and people being personal and telling people they are morons and whatnot, for no apparent reason.

  4. Nope. Everything is either a point of view or based on facts. And from those, you project an oppinion.

  5. If its not meant for the many, why have CCP spend years trying to get more to play, and to ease the system to support it? What would CCP gain, from a game, that seems to slowly wind down in playeractivity (at least maincharacters. IM sure many acitve players are just alts).

  6. Playing games is a right, if you already paid for it, many times over (like with all other products in history). Its a privillige to play it well, if you ever reach a level of play, that makes you experience the End-game.

  7. I dont believe I said that others said it was retarded. But alright, maybe I have worded things too harsh here and there. Mea culpa. So what? Regarding WHO; The 10 teens Ive tried getting to play it. They were all geeky and loved the concept of EVE. BUt after trying it a bit, they all dropped out, because it was simply too repetitive, expensive (back 3 yrs ago), too time-consuming to reach the fun-level. Thats what they said. And Id have to agree a little with them. Even after all the new things, I dont see many new youngster entering the game, as it is now. You disagree, and thats fine. Its merely my prediction. Treat it as such. Its not me trying to be smart.

  8. Why are you attacking semantics? Seem to me, that you have a different motive, than discussing game-views? Hence I called you a troll. You have a personal motive to trigger me, for some reason. I can live with that lol. I dont scorn a bit of idle banter. As long as it dosnt derail the thread.

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112

Touché, sir lol… Forgive my coffey-spoiling ways (bows reverently)

113

“Carebear” in EvE at least is a derrogatory term for someone who thinks EvE should be a safe space for anyone who doesn’t consent to PvP. If you are called a carebear merely for doing PvE you have been mis-labeled. Carebearism is a mindset, not an activity preference.

Being a good person, has absolutely nothing to do with your in game actions as long as you play within the rules. Murdering someone’s king in a game of chess does not make anyone a bad person. Upturning the board because you lost, or being angry at your opponent makes you a bad person (a bit).

It’s not “dealing with opposition” if you let your temper get away with you and blame it on a “lack of patience”.

EvE’s player numbers are falling BECAUSE they are making the game more accessible. Every change toward increased safety has resulted in a decline in playerbase.

Loads of products throughout history have been subscription based so “like with all products in history” is just silly. Playing games is not a right unless you bought the right to play the game forever. When you buy a single purchase game like Sonic the Hedgehog you buy it knowing that once you buy it, there will be no further updates and your game experience will be the same forever. When you buy a subscription based game, you assume there will be updates enough that the game remains interesting. These updates take MONEY to produce and therefor you are required to maintain your subscription in order to pay the developers to keep making new content.

Well of the 100+ people I’ve introduced to EvE, approx 20% subbed and 10% are still playing to my knowledge. I think you were just showing them really boring things to do. I think a new player’s experience is much more based on who he flies with than how hard or repetative the game is. If every one of your rookies thought EvE was repetative and boring chances are they just had a crap role model.

You’ve been baiting Yellow just as much if not more than he’s been baiting you. You’ve called loads of people stupid and constantly refer to others as “champ” or “kid” which demonstrates you are actively trying to place yourself above others (why do you feel so small?).

That’s fine, I’ve said my piece and the coffee was still good. Don’t worry yourself and enjoy the rest of your EvE Online experience :parrotbeer:

114

Adding a load of plex sinks and making plex modular has had a big impact on the price.

That’s down to CCP

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115

Well, since the post youre quoting, werent directed at you, Ill refrain from commenting, other than mwhahahaha.

On a more serious note, though. If I offended sensitive people into being even more insensible, Im sorry. Im an old salty dog, that sometimes reiterate quite direct. But i rarely start the ball rolling, unless the person in question is being completely devoid of reason and sense. Yellow is a borderliner, in that category. But sure, Ill be civil from now on, if he is too.
In regards to you, I dont se why anyone would need you to champion for them and meddle between two people hashing it out? Are you a moral authority here? Or are you simply trying to be the only “adult”?
You focus completely on form, rather than content, which is why Id rather spend time on content of the thread, regarding the game itself, rather than discussing personal matter and perceptions of people who clearly dont have interest in the topic at hand.

All things aside, have you ANY input on why EVE isnt growing? And what would be the cause of it? Id like to hear it, if youre done white-knighting in vain?

PS. I personally find your replies designed to smear me, for some reason. So plz accept, that you get a response, worthy of your comments. Thats only fair, Id say. I can live with being talked down to, if its mutual.

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116

Totally concur with you Wotan, I myself am quitting after on/off since 2006, the nepotism, botting, now alpha’s get more powerful while I have been paying $14.95 us for a dinosaur of a game, not any more.
Too old, too corrupted, it had its time, now just microtransactions into oblivion…good luck fanboiz oh I meant ccp, lol

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117

There’s a good bloke.

In this situation yes, because i have experience of the person you’re calling a troll and i have heard much more relevant content out of him than from you. Yellow can be a dick, we all can, but he is not a troll for disagreeing with you or for returning your ■■■■ tier banter.

I have given thousands of posts of input on all areas of EvE. I have personally interviewed more than six thousand new players. So yeah i have a bunch of input, and the people of relevance have read it. My input here was also directly relevant, since I already answered this question directly in my last post.

here:

So yeah, that’s my input on why eve isn’t growing as well as what the cause is. You’d have noticed that if you weren’t so busy thinking of that white-knight zinger.

Again, when someone disagrees with you it is not a smear campaign or white knighting or anything else. You might just not know what you’re talking about.

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118

wow… Delusions of grandeur sure comes out in full camo at times lol.
Well, if you wanna exchange merits like that, like a proverbial penis-contest, I was once CEO of one of EVEs biggest coalitions. And have talked with thousands of players too. True story too.

Ive been working with games and kids and development on the side, for years now. So yeah maybe you should also listen to me? It works both ways, hombre. Or does you majesty demand submission, before proceeding?
You dont know me, like you apparently know Yellow. And who´s to say, whether Yellow isnt just a corp mate youre supporting, and all the rest is just bullcrap? You saying it it so, dosnt make it so, heffe.

When you get these monikers put on you, dont you EVER stop and think: “Hmm, what could possibly make people respond in such ways?”. Because I dont really think you place the blame in the right spot. Yellow started by ridiculing my views, without even bothering to be respectful about his points. I reitterated in the same level and fashion. And since then, its been like this, you, me and him just building up the arguments of who said what, why and when, rather than keeping focus on the topic itself.
So yeah, excuse me for not taking your hot air serious. And for not believing in your motives for being here.

But enough of this idle banter. We agree to disagree. And peace with that. Youve made it clear you dont much like me personally, and that Im just whining and acting like Im smart. I just wanted a thread, where I could maybe get some of my prejudice removed from my perceptions of EVE, by people interested in being helpful. So lets get on with it, shall we…

119

I think the granular plex and skins are way less responsible for the current plex price than alpha players and skill farmers.

120

This thread begun as a reasonable quesion on whether we think the game is more or less accessible to new players but the OP turned it into a “bittervet” rant.

OP: you said living in nullsec or wormholes are “endgame” in EVE and in 6 years you felt not ready for it. Well, your mindset is fixed on other type of game. EVE has no endgame. It is up to you try to live in those areas of space or not. I started living in WHs in 8 months, solo, then eventually found some nice folks and joined a propper corp. I wish I did it sooner to be honest.
In the end I think you are just affraid of trying it out. Do it, if you don’t like, let this game go, I’m sure you will find sometging else.

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