Why not, though? I mean these FOB can be a real pain in the back in certain systems and asking other people to come clean them up is expensive (especially if they come to the system repeatedly) and takes time. For all I care, they could have a diminishing returns style payment scheme like Incursions where bringing too few people or too many people reduces the rewards. This way, people who want to clear them with an alt just to get rid of them can do so, and people who want to run them for the rewards can also do so in properly sized fleets.
But outright not making it possible to remove such a nuisance from the system you want to live in with a limited number of characters would be really annoying.
A good start would be if they didn’t make this content so annoying. I mean, FOB can be abused by ganker bumpers to get ships killed without putting any assets of their own at risk.
And I’m sorry but you completely disregarded the context of my post by selecting a single sentence to reply to.
This like resource wars was designed to be group content, encourage loners in highsec to work together.
Based on that FOB’s are a complete failure, which means it is not ok for them to be run solo or with an alt.
I also believe the novelty of running them for minimal rewards will soon kick in and highsec will once again be flooded with FOB’s no-one wants to run (hasn’t been one completed in the last 24 hours) - Unless they are being paid by residents of the system to get rid of them.
Bottom line really is, Devs need to “fix” what is currently totally broken content or just bite the bullet and remove it until they find a way to get it right.
Design goals are important and sadly CCP’s track record for meeting “their own” proposed goals [forget player expectations] with many aspects of Eve have fallen a long way short of the mark - This has a roll on effect of players leaving the game or not starting at all due to adverse media coverage.
CCP needs to step up, stop introducing new crap that is broken, unfinished or just not necessary (monitor, fatigue, ALL structures, Agent finder, just a few examples) and fix the game.
I did not ignore the rest of your message. I am just annoyed by these FOBs being nothing but a nuisance and I don’t want to that I must rely on others to get rid of it and have to pay for that, too.
I completely agree with the rest of your post and the content of your last post.
A crew of us have hit a number of Blood Raider FOBs over the last few days using RR Domis - it’s been fun, some of the funnest group PvE I’ve experienced in the game, there is definitely some group coordination necessary to run these things.
I do agree that the risk vs reward could use some tweaking, the payout does seem a bit lacking vs the risk you’re in with the FOB and defense fleet and I do find it odd that there are no bounty rewards for any of the defense fleet ships?
Somewhere up ^^^ someone mentioned something about the ability of Alpha Clones being able to participate in these things. With a meta fit RR Domi and Faction Heavy Drones I do think it’s doable, the big limiter would be that it looks like Alpha’s are locked out of using a MJD so you’d really need to time your exit well.
Did it really take them 30 min or less solo? Was there logi? Also, please be constructive as we’re all here trying to share information and ideas. We don’t need condescension. I am 100% sure he is not making more than ratting super carriers. It would take a long time for one person to take down an FOB solo I bet. Even if logi support. You have to factor in time to scoop loot, time to plot next, time to do 3 million damage.
Even if one person who does one solo in three months does mean it is ‘doable’ but doesn’t mean that everyone can do it. Show me a prophecy fit that can solo tank 5,000 dps, and I’ll give you a million isk That seems flawed.
Did one on Sisi with two Rattlesnakes. Fully passive T2 fit (just shy of 100k EHP, 86% thermal).
At 300km FOB was silent, no aggro. Defense fleet showed up with 2 kestrels, 1 Gila, 1 Osprey and a bunch of Caracals. At full agro tank was holding at just above 50%.
When I warped to 0, FOB agroed both ships, sometimes neuting both at the same time. I’ve cut the fleet to 3 Caracals and no reinforcements showed up.
Structure bashing was painfully boring and it dropped one T1 mod
I am pretty happy that we are seeing a number of different groups with differing strategies. CCP is getting closer to where these should be. Statistics will be looked at, and I think more subtle changes to them and the rewards will be forthcoming. Overall new PvE is good and welcome imho. It just takes some time to dial them in.
My comment wasn’t specifically saying guys doing them solo but if you look through the kills for a period of time you’ll notice there are small groups of 2 or 3 players that are making very good isk off these things.
3 remote repping domis completed 2 FOB’s in under an hour, that works out at around 213mil isk each per hour including travel time OR close to double that of a blinged ratting carrier doing Havens, post nerfs. Which if my numbers are right, is very very close to what a ratting super will do. With the frequency these things spawn a dedicated dou/trio could plex their account every few hours.
If pointing out the obvious is being condescending, then so be it. You stated they couldn’t be run solo I simply pointed out they were being run solo using the killboard as evidence…
Just to be clear, I’m NOT here to share ideas on how to run these things the most efficiently, my only goal is to provide information for a better way for them to be laid out in the game so that more than just the highly skilled, rich players can run them - You know, content for “highsec” not just a minority within it. Incursions provide virtually unlimited isk for the elite in highsec, these should not be an alternative for the same group of players…
As for the Prophecy - I don’t know how but according to available information it was completed solo. Or maybe there was others with him who all left system just before it died and therefore didn’t show up on the killmail - Logically though, if the rest of a fleet left before it died the Prophecy would have died before killing the FOB as all incoming DPS would switch to it very quickly once everyone else left grid.
I’m not sure how the incoming DPS works on FOB’s but you can get a Prophecy to tank just over 2500DPS, while cap stable, doing 480DPS maybe that was enough…
Sure it would take time and probably isn’t isk efficient - Flawed or not, seems he did it…
Nothing done by anyone means others can do it - As can be clearly seen looking at the killboard for FOB’s or anything else in Eve. What one player can win fights in another will lose in seconds. What one fleet can achieve in a certain ship type another will lose with in the same situation.
Uh, I don’t think you know how FoB’s pay out.
They pay out starting at 30 Mil if you solo them, down to 20 mil if you have a 40 man fleet, then over a 40 man fleet they split the 800 Mil evenly.
So completing 2 per hour you are only turning 60 mil isk each.
As it was pointed out, bounty is 800 mil with 30 mil per person cap. If you’re referring to some lucky drops out of those things, then there are examples of much luckier and more consistent drops in highsec like ded sites.
FOBs are definitely not locking out anyone and aren’t restricted to highly skilled, rich players. A ‘properly’ skilled Alpha Toon can pilot a RR Domi fit to run FOBs. Something like the fit below, which is geared towards hitting the Blood Raider FOBs, would work well for them.
[Dominix, Alpha FOB Dominix]
Energized EM Membrane II
Energized Thermal Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Large Cap Battery II
Large Cap Battery II
Large Cap Battery II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 3200
Large Cap Battery II
Large I-ax Enduring Remote Armor Repairer
Large I-ax Enduring Remote Armor Repairer
Large I-ax Enduring Remote Armor Repairer
Large Asymmetric Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Asymmetric Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Asymmetric Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Large Anti-EM Pump I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Hmmm, I think you forgot about the main part of the income from FOB’s.
3 ships = 45 mil a piece + ~200 mil loot drop = ~335 mil per FOB. That when I went to school equals roughly 111 mil isk each per FOB.
Figures will vary according to loot drop but they seem to be around the 200 mil mark when run with such a group…
So yeah, while the payouts aren’t really balanced for effort (less is less, too many is less) - 3 seems to be an optimal number to do them with. The more you have in the fleet the less each one makes overall.
Interesting that the only way to get the maximum payout means each fleet member earns less than running them with less in fleet - Balance really isn’t CCP’s fort’e…
The pay out system is actually pretty elegant. It’s marginally less per person, but dramatically more overall. Increasing payout as fleet gets bigger results in an overly inflated value where you are punished for a small fleet.
As you’ve just put, though I disagree that loot can be counted like that since loot requires collecting in an industrial, shipping, & selling, which means it takes a lot more than just time running the site to convert that loot to isk, you now have a situation where a small fleet can make individual isk.
Not sure how you figure the payout increases as the fleet gets bigger - The bigger the fleet the less each member gets.
From what I’ve seen and been told 3 to 5 is the optimal amount when it comes to payout per member, anything over that sees each member paid less.
Loot is what makes the content worth running, the same as it is for much high end PVE content. If you don’t collect those overseers efffects and loot drops your robbing yourself and anyone else who happens to be there with you.
As there are no bounties and the payout for the structure is quite dismal the loot would make the difference between whether they are worth doing or not.
All it takes is one fleet member to be able to fly a T1 hauler and 5 minutes of their time to potentially double the payout for each site. As for the selling part, it really isn’t that hard to create a courier contract with RF or someone to haul it to Jita, then go sell it when your having a bit of quiet time. 5 or 6 FOB’s could net a billion isk, personally i think that’s worth a bit of time to collect.
1 person, 30 mil. Total payout 30 mil.
40 people, 20 mil. Total payout 800 Mil.
Which is a larger payout depends on if you only care about the figure going into your wallet or if you care about the profit going into everyone’s wallet.
I don’t disagree the loot is worth collecting, though it looks more like 100 Mil per FoB, not 200, Taking a bunch of recent FoB’s and averaging them. But because of the volume it’s not simply an ‘add to payout’ because your hauler has to be right there also, or it’s more than 5 minutes, especially if you are roaming to try and take out a number of FoB’s.
So yeah… Payout not where you were quoting. 80 per FoB roughly for a 3 man fleet. And hauling time non trivial potentially.
That seems flawed.