Hello. A little over 20 years ago a few people designed EVE Online. It was a great design. Since then about 200 people or so have been rent seeking on their work. But also making changes and moving away from the original ideas and vision just for the sake of it because they think that’s what being smart is. Thats it. Thats the topic. Lets discuss

This is a good topic. But not sure how the original ideas and vision have been changed. But there have been random changes to things like the UI and various other things.

Like, it gets changed just for the sake of changing it which is something only stupid people would do?

The original vision did not have nannys like for example the safety system. But also the AIR Career program and even the opportunities tab can be considered nannys. And obviously the gifts for just logging in. The partner program also has nanny vibes.

Unfortunately i think CCP is at a place where they think they have not introduced enough of this type of things and believe that is why they are not as successful as in the past.

What was the original vision? Before we can discuss we need to be clear what that was.
Also, products need to evolve. Maybe it was okay for EvE to have the bare minimum twenty years ago but gaming has changed since then, the demographic of gamers has, too. It’s expected that changes would come after so many years of no evolution, maybe even stagnation.
CCP says they have a vision for the future of EvE. I’ll be sticking around since I’m curious but I’m already impressed with what I’ve seen so far.


to imply that evolving a game over 20 years isnt smart is very stupid ! if eve would have not changed then nobody would play this anymore ! i know you will come up that eve´s playerbase is that low that we already can say “nobody plays this game” but youre wrong !

it IS a great design ! and CCP didnt change the original idea of this game ! they changed the look, they changed some balance stuff, they changed all this nice stuff it need to be changed ! but the game is still the same in his base as it starts 2003 !

no its not ! its a subtile rant to CCP that they destroyed their game !
he trolls and spamms the forum !

its not a nanny ! it was a missing tool and still it didnt changed the base idea of this game !

why ? xD you come wich such statements and dont bring any reason ! only your alternated facts ! your opinion ! your crazy logic !
both are good to see because they give the new player a little orientation !

where do you know they are not succesful ? they have a running game for 20 years ! if thats no succes then i dont know what succes is ! you want that this game would have millions of active players? that never would happen ! its a niche game … its to harsh for the most ! its to harsh for you thats why you need to start crying in this forum that this game is bad !

if you think the game is bad then stop playing ! dont spamm this forum with threads of your stupid ideas !

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Well hold on now. There’s nothing wrong with experimentation so long as you’re willing to step back should things not work out.

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I mean, they’d probably be right? Eve is a very complex game. One where the punishments can be very harsh. Both of which combined can serve to chase off players before they manage to settle in and acclimate.

There’s the “original vision”, and there’s “what got pushed out the door when the deadline hit, and we’ll work on fixing up the rest later”.

CCP spent about 6 years expanding on the original concepts, during which time most of the original designers got bored or dissatisfied or maneuvered out of the company. Since around 2010 CCP’s been a bit visionless, really. With apparently more focus on “OK we did EVE, now what do we do next?” than on making EVE the best it can be.

For over a decade, EVE has primarily been the cash cow that CCP milks to fund whatever else it’s trying to create a ‘vision’ of. So most of the changes to EVE have been focused on ways to push the niche audience into paying more for the privilege. And then when that approach blows up in their face and income drops, CCP goes into a year or two of “recovery” mode and struggles to add something to the game to lure paying players (or investor funding) back.

I get the feeling that over the last few years, somewhere along the way someone at CCP woke up a bit and realized “Oh hey, you know what? We actually need our players and we’re actually getting some competition out there, so maybe we should, I dunno, add some stuff for the players?”

This led to a lot of head-scratching and false starts and shooting themselves in the foot (and some really bloated UI bits) but that’s just CCP flailing about as usual.

I’m not sure there’s been a vision at CCP that lasted more than a few quarter’s financial results. For the moment, they seem to be interested in adding actual EVE content for portions of the playerbase, and that’s probably the best we can hope for until somebody’s nephew turns out to be an actually decent game designer.

proof ? where is your list of developers they leave beacause they were bored and dissatisfied ?
every company has employee fluctuation ! this is normal and cannot be prevented !

oh, thats the reason for all the updates and expansions … they were visionless and did something else ! …

its still the cash cow until CCP has another product wich is way profitable then eve online !

lets see … they raised the price of their product only 1 times ( as i can remember ) and this was legit !
and you wanna say what ? every expansion was planned to raise the prices ? oO
every expansion was planned to get $ from their customers ?
of course they want to see money … they are a company with employees they need to get paied … if they dont generate income they cant pay their employees and they can close their company !

when was their “recovery mode” maybe i completly ignored it ? im interested in this “fact”

lol ? they know exactly that they need their players ! they are the ppl who payed their paychecks ! every company knows this pretty well !

ok then you can tell us 1 company without any decicions theyve done, and their customers where always happy with it ! tell us …

to reach the quarter financial result isnt a vision ! thats the basement they need to stay on market !
their vision is to develope a good space game ! and they did !

was always the plan xD they are develope this game since more then 20 years now and if they didnt want it for their player then they would flop ! and as we know and also as we can see, eve isnt a flop ! its a niche game and it was always a niche game ! but they create $ with it and this tells the story of a good game !

Actually dude, you mostly seem to be interested in yapping and snarling on the forums. Answering the points of someone who’s just here to bark louder than the other dogs isn’t something I do.

Also, I realize English isn’t your first language (at least I truly hope it isn’t), but you should try to learn another piece of punctuation beyond the exclamation point.

It’ll add variety to your barking.


The original Eve Online trailer. Carebears watch and weep…


and to be the loudest dog you could shown us the real facts with sources if you wanna bring it ! instead you just bring points with no evaluation and then youre mad about ppl who argue against you ?
btw … nobody can know everything and maybe i simply dont know about something you say ? ( oh look something else then en exclamation mark )

but instead to show and source of your argument you decide to attack me and say i´m a dog who only barks in forums ! youre a perfect example of a person who only bring his own point of view as a fact and then if someone asked if its true, youre the dog who wants to bark at loudest but dont show any source !

i simply ignore it :wink: i like the this vertical sign wich stands upright more then the sign that lay down on the ground ! . ?

you just tryed to bark louder xD but dont proofe anything ! until you proofed it, its only in your head !

I’m not impressed with the growing trend of CCP controlling the storyline of the alleged ‘sandbox’. Ever more ‘events’ and PvE and nannying of people into shooting CCP sandcastles…as if PvP is just an afterthought.


I’ve long argued that new players should be confined to some holding area for up to 30 days. They have to leave for ‘Eve proper’ after 30 days, but can voluntarily leave before that if they want.

Ninety-five percent of the people who post here would absolutely lose their ■■■■ if they had to play EVE from twenty years ago. Including every single alt-posting forum whiner who laments on a daily basis about the whatever-fest EVE “has become.” They just have no idea.


I don’t usually pay attention to a sandbox’s storyline. Especially when a storyline is contrary to the idea of sandbox and is only designed to facilitate and maximize profit for the game owners.

No one forces players to participate in the nanny-carousel and the PvP that happens in the game is not hindered. CCP gives options to the players and I think it’s fine.

It’s not an afterthought, that’s CCP’s bread’n’butter.

A game is not easy to design, I tried myself in 2d pixel style.

  • A vision is often “look at that game (genre) I want to do something similar”
  • It requires an engine or work on one
  • It requires a lot of mechanics from collsion detection to availability of upgrades for the avatar
  • It requires a massive ton of artwork done in a graphic desing program with rudimentary knowledge on colour theory

and so on.

All right, well not knowing something and being open to learning about it is valid.

The problem is that I can’t really educate you on 20 years of CCP/EVE history. You’ll have to do a lot of research yourself if you want to know more.

A good place to start:

Which features the quote: “On 28 August 2014, CCP Games shut down its San Francisco studio to refocus their efforts on EVE Online . At the same time, CFO Joe Gallo and CMO David Reid resigned. As of 2015, none of CCP Games’ original founders were still with the company.”

Hilmar, the current CEO, does go back to the very early days, but if I recall correctly I think he was the networking/hardware guy and not a game designer. He basically ended up as CEO because everyone else had better things to do.

The comings and goings of key and popular devs at CCP has been public news for years. As have the various rounds of layoffs, restructuring, teams being created and removed, etc. Other articles that might help bring you up to speed:

You might also look up articles on all the failed, attempted or aborted games CCP has given up on (Dust 514, Valkyrie, Gunjack, various shooters etc.). And “Summer of Rage”. And you might learn along the way that Alpha/free clones weren’t created to “give players a better view of EVE” - it was created to boost player numbers in 2016 because they were crashing hard, and they needed a way to make the company look better so they could sell it.

Go take a look at the EVE Offline Tranquility chart, and get an idea what happened with player numbers before and after Aug.2016.

I’ve covered all these and more topics in previous posts, it’s not really practical to link the sources for everything again and again in every post. People who’ve been around more than 10 years know what I’m referring to. Whether they agree with my viewpoint on it is a different question.

The truth is out there, but nobody’s obligated to wrap it up and hand it to you for free. If you want to challenge someone who’s been around longer and knows more of the history, start doing some of your own homework.


which was a result of the flop of “world of darkness”
this means this project is dead and they dont need their employees for this location … its hard for all the employees but its not a “recovering mode” its normal state of the art … you have aproduct thats not good then you are ending the existance of this product ! unless you have another product you could create you dont need this location anymore because it only costs a lot of $ but dont let you earn some $ !
btw … ive noticed it but i dont care because it wasnt about eve online … and it does not effect eve online !

CCP Games closes San Francisco office, loses two key executives | PC Gamer

this shows me only 1 dude which was fired ! he didnt go by himself …
and to get fired it was his own mistake …
if it was the right decision → maybe, maybe not !

this is about other games then eve online … dont care about this !
but i´m still mission all the dudes which leaves CCP because they were bored and dissatisfied oO
you only showed that sometimes you have an employee fluctuation in your company but this is realy standart !

i know what happens … if they release alphas the playerbase extremly raised again ! but it slowly drops after ppl see that alphas are not the way to go !

do you know why ccp left their player ? because of a few unpopular decisions like fozzie sov !
THIS is an example of a bad mechanic … i hate to say it but → better then the old as you had SBU´s … but it is significantly less popular

Summer of Sov - Nullsec PVE and Upgrades | EVE Online

but you can quote it or link a thread ! its not that hard …

like me ? i´m played since 2012 ! but still see things way different then you are ! still a lower playerbase doesnt look like CCP failed at eve online ! its a great game ! we wouldnt play it if its not !

so many ppl say they know the truth ! but they simply dont know it … btw … i dont know how long youre been to eve but i challange everybody if i think its ■■■■■■■■ ! like i said before … nobody can know everything and sometimes you simply forget things you decide they are not important for you like me and world of darkness !

btw … why should i do work if you imply you have the source on hand and only need a link to it ? why do i need to search the whole internet about the source you already have ? just link your source and we all can improve our knowledge !

It was said above, but after this post it clearly needs to be said again. You really need to slow down and edit these posts, nobody is going to read this.

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