They can.
They are expected to play by all the same rules as everyone else however.
Git gud or be satisfied with the margins at hubs.
Assuming you know how to obtain and use that data which give an unfair advantage to those that do. And a disadvantage to those that dont.
Which is the definition of a fair advantage. EvE is a game which rewards research and tools by design and policy.
Git gud.
it’s not about getting good. Those people that know how to pull down and display data for a given thing (sales data in a given system for example) have an unfair advantage over people that cannot do that. That information should be ingame for anyone to be able to use and interpret.
It is. It’s not quite as easy as through ESI and third party apps that are freely available with a bit of looking, but it’s there.
Collation and interpretation of data is a fair advantage. Not a single bit of this is unfair. If anything, we need to go the other way and kill the ESI endpoints for market data to make this slightly harder universally.
As long as the data is available at no cost, to all users who are willing to make an effort to access it, no unfair advantage exists.
Your claim is equivalent to saying ‘if I haven’t learned how to fly logistics nobody else should be allowed to do so either.’
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I think they are different example, flying logistics is all available in game, the skills, the ships etc if i just choose not to fly logistics then so be it.
Obtaining data to interpret into something readable is different, it requires a level of technical knowledge that some dont have and is not neccesarily easy to learn.
I am not saying that data shouldnt be accesable, i am saying that either CCP should provide the tools and instructions, or at least it would be helpful for someone to write laymens instructions for how to do it.
I’ve seen people ask questions on the forums and sometimes the reply is “no-one is going to divulge that information to give away their advantage” same here, learning logisitcs cannot be compared to learning some programming language (or whatever is needed) to interpret data.
If someone can point me to a document with straightforward instructions on what to do, ill give it a go.
There is an entire subforum related to 3rd party tools that leverage the SDE and APIs. CCP has also published documentation to assist with development of tools. Your willingness to do research is the only limitation - which is not CCP’s fault.
CCP added data access to cover things that are not functionally deliverable inside the game due to server load and performance considerations (like the ENTIRE market - if every player accessed the whole market order database constantly, the game would crash). It also has allowed development of tools like PYFA.
It is not CCP’s job to come up with every possible use for the data they have an put an in-game method for mass aggregation and display thereof - they were simply kind enough to grant access for players who are capable and willing to develop such things. The vast majority of these tools are readily available to other players (PFYA, a bunch of eve market tools, multiple wormhole mapping tools, EVE Vision, all of the player authentication tools, at least a half dozen Discord bots, a variety of Crop management tools - the list goes on!).
Edit to add: all of this boils down to ‘You should have done a tiny bit of research before claiming there was an unfair advantage, since that’s complete bull. Other people have already done the work to make this data accessible to you - a single Google search for EVE MARKET DATA or some browsing of the forum would have made this abundantly clear. Your failure to even try to find the information does not equate to an imbalance in game data accessibility.’
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Patently false. With staggering relist fees and half a dozen competitors, it can take 90 days just for items to sell off until it’s your turn. You can’t have it both ways… either you play the isk war and update your prices every 5 minutes (and empty your profit margin in less than a day) or you sit on your hands until everyone else’s product moves. There is a wide variety of types of products in terms of value, overvaluation, demand, sourcing etc. You can’t put it all in a box and blame the seller’s price point.
Look the issue is still that CCP is messing with the market and forcing traders to either sell stuff for lower profits or go it trade wars were you will lose isk.
The current system has no problem if you are selling ammo antimatter, but if you are selling office module that sells rarely and somebody else puts up the same module 10 min later for lower amount then i get royally screwed. I can like i said before go into a trade war or wait 90 days and hope that both items sells.
There needs to be a better trading middleground between the ISK wars of the past and the current system were you can lose all your profit margin in one go.
I’m sure the vertically-integrated nullsec monopolists have no problem managing their market orders, so why would CCP change anything?
Either price low to sell quickly, accepting a lower profit margin, or price higher and acknowledge it may take longer for your order to sell but you get a larger profit per-item. You no longer get to do both in a single order.
If there is sufficient demand for the product, it will sell even if other players undercut your prices; if there is not, you need to re-evaluate the market you are trying to sell into and determine if it is the right place for your product. An oversaturated market is going to have profit margin problems anyway - don’t blame the relisting fee for that.
Edit to add: Adapt to your target market’s conditions. If you are dealing with a low demand market and have a lot of supply, only place 1-2 items in a single sell order - you can then add a new order below any undercutter’s price point for another 1-2 units, and so on - you then spread your inventory across the range of prices without having to eat the relist fee on each lower price, and get more of your items sold at higher price points since you didn’t lock all of your inventory into a single tier.
If you have an item that has very low movement, like skins and officer stuff, then just forget the market - you can advertise on the forums or whatever. It is dumb that CCP chose to kill part of their famous player-driven market.
If you want to sell stuff in some out of the way region, forget it. Unless you are selling ammo, CCP pretty much killed that. Even the former market hubs like Rens/Hek are pretty useless now.
This. It IS punishment for people who don’t want to partake in a small volume high frequency activity.
It IS punishment for people who want to provide items that are barely bought.
It IS punishment for people not playing in the main hubs . That means, soon only jita and amarr will be alive. Don’t get me wrong, I make most of my benefit in Jita, but I already stopped my alts in Hek and Amarr ans stopped the training of dodixie alt, because of that relist fee that means you HAVE TO only sell what sells fast, which in turns means less items on the secondary hubs, which in turn means less items are fast sellable in that hub.
Set the max delay to 900 days instead of 90. Yeah, 3 years.
I already asked for this specific issue when the update was coming, and CCP did not give a single answer to that issue. I personally blame the people who were spamming the forum with tears and made any discussion useless, with nonsensical things like “it will actually help the bots”.
First they came for the market traders, but nobody cared.
Then the trading hubs died and the only freighters left in space were hauling compressed ore bound for Jita?
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They did not come for market trader.
They came for a gameplay that was mindless updating of your orders. Also for a mechanism that was illogical(margin trading) and mostly used for abuse.
I’m totally fine with those two updates (that were combined in one). What I’m not fine with, is that CCP completely ignored the issue of long-lasting orders and the effect on local hubs.
Anyway to sumerize this thread a bit:
Pros of the new system:
- Isk war is gone
- Bots are gone?
- overall lower prices on everything
- Some player like the new system
List item
Cons of the new system
- A lot of items are now impossible to trade outside of Jita dude to risk of losing profit margin.
- Caldari Achura is yet again the best race to start with.
- Less variation of items the other trade hubs, basically killing them slowly.
So again my message to CCP is: Yes you killed bots but you also killed the trading profession and my profit margins and all the variation of items on the rest of the trade hubs.
Are you sure about that?
Are you sure about that ?
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