Please try reading instead of jumping straight in with a childlike comment of ‘Lrn2Play’!
Try being constructive.
Have you ever tried it?
Finding viable targets and avoiding being exploded while you are both free-to-shoot and being chased by NPCs isn’t trivial. And even if you do succeed you have to secure the loot.
Maybe there are some changes that could be made here to make more space for players to mess with criminals. But buffing Freighters (yet again) doesn’t seem to address any of this. It just increases the costs on the gankers changing the target profile, but introduces no new game play.
I’m quite confused on this. Killmails aren’t rewards, and least in any material sense.
If a fleet ganks an empty ship they get nothing and lose a bunch of ISK when CONCORD shows up and explodes them. Which is why this happens only rarely, when there is some other reason to make such disincentivized game decision. Almost all ganking is standard piracy where they are looking for a reward, and whether that is possible is completely under the control of the hauler.
This is a sandbox game so we get to make up the reasons we do things.
Ok, well this mechanic isn’t it. There is no counter play here for the predator, just more free cheese for the mice.
I mean, if CCP decides freighters don’t have enough EHP to carry the amount of goods they think they should and so CCP wants to increase their EHP and thus the cost to gank, then I am for tying that to an new active module. That’s better than just giving them more EHP across the board like they did with the DCU changes. But that isn’t going to create any new “gameplay” - it just changes the profit calculation - so I suggest you stop trying to sell this idea as such.
This from the person who ignores all the responses that make his idea bad.
Scouting is done easily enough with alts by one person with no risk that isn’t and can’t be linked (as it should be), once a target is found it’s a simple call to see who’s available in Discord or ingame chat channel, that majority of the gankers then just turn up lock and fire, get concorded, warp off pod to safe, wait out timer and dock. Then go back to playing on their main with no worry about sec status on their alt.
But you have been making perfectly good points thank you.
But freighters need emergent gameplay (rewarding people at their keyboard more so than AFKers, but as said above not make it impossible to be popped) as it’s been said in multiple streams with CSM and CCP staff that moving goods is going to be required a lot more with the new industry changes.
Freighters are just currently loot pinatas and expensive one’s at that.
I’m not ignoring as I proved above, I’m trying to reply with a counter. That’s how a contructive argument works amongst adults!
You’re posts are worthless to a debate and consist of gET gUd or waaaa yOu’RE enTitLEd.
If you have something you want to add that isn’t Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V that has thought and logic behind it please let me know.
Repeating nonsense over and over is not a discussion.
Anyway, I have reached my 3 response limit and you can have the last word, wrong or not 
Looking at all your responses I think it’s quite clear who is posting nonsese and not contributing to a reasonable discussion.
DSTs and freighters fill different specialties. Freighters can hold huge volumes and be tanky, but have nothing more to them.
DSTs hold less and arent as tanky, but have a fleet hangar which can be used by fleetmates for depositing and taking things, and can use the MWD-Cloak trick to be reasonably safe while hauling in most of lowsec, and potentially some nullsec areas. The DST also travels MUCH faster than a freighter even with a web alt, so if you arent carrying too much for a DST to carry you use the DST.
Essentially, The DST’s meta is its ability to be used outside hisec and can travel faster, but it has less cargo capacity than freighters as a result
Its hard to say what the best thing is though and I think most of what we wlll hear will just bias toward a play style.
It could well be the freighter is meant to be a loot pinata and why not? There are plenty of real world examples of purpose built things that need protecting even from armies of mosquitos because they cannot protect themself. Think oil tankers attacked by Somali pirates in speed boats with small arms. Its very real.
On the other hand one player with an army of mosquitos being able to take down the ship of one player with a massively expensive cargo can be sucky gameplay for the victim. My big question is, is there much of a failure rate for such ganks? Has any multiboxing ganker gone in game broke for failing? Somali pirates have quite a failure rate, but when they succeed it can net them quite a haul of cash.
We may never know the answer to all the questions we would need the answers to to really know.
And I will just say that multiboxing is really crappy. Its too bad it cannot go away, but it can’t. I would have no problem with current dynamics if I knew there was only one individual behind every ship. As it is, if a multiboxing ganker fails enough times, he just adds some extra ships for the next gank and its almost like nothing changed.
But multiboxing is here to stay so what’s the best balance between all that’s going on? It becomes a guess.
One thing I am sure of though is that if hauling pilots have a choice between better defenses and bigger cargo cap most will choose the cargo cap. So frieghters getting an extra low slot will probably leave everyone happy.
1 Like
This idea is still DOA for this reason, doesn’t actually ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING.
-1
[quote=“Salt_Foambreaker, post:30, topic:303423, full:true”]
You really hate this idea!
However say this was the case in the scenario outlined above, it would then become a who flinches first, does the freighter pilot hit it straight away or does he wait knowing there could be a second wave? Does the gank squad go all in because the pilot is AFK or do they commit all their force in a second wave? Does the second wave have another 20+ ships to trigger… If they do that means the cost of ganking went up a little more so there is more risk to the gankers (currently there is none).
Sounds like a good scenario to involve more strategy on the freighter pilots part and make it less boring!
CCP wants more people at the keyboard when playing, so each role, job, ship that’s currently boring like mining, PI and using a freighter needs more emergent gameplay.
Do you have an idea as to why it’s not a good idea from your perspective instead of what you have been doing and just saying NO or -1 or gEt gUd?
If that is the actual goal then CCP can reduce tank on freighters by 60% and then have the panic button make the tank as strong as it is now. That would make sure that any AFK pilots hauling anything but an empty ship are likely dead and anyone not afk has the option of getting massive tank that they normally do. 
However knowing how haulers are, they would likely forego the panic button altogether for another cargo expander and then still complain about being ganked. Remember, freighters used to not have fittings like they do now, and CCP gave the choice of tank or more cargo. People choose cargo and overload then whine when they die.
This one isn’t me, just one I randomly clicked on just to see if all freigher pilots were adding expanders all the time.
This kill highlights the problem, the pilot didn’t fit extra cargo, didn’t have anything worth taking but was ganked. 20 out of the 30 gankers were piloted by one person multiboxing!
How about get rid of the slots except one which can only be used with the panic module.
Not expanders, but he definitely anti-tanked his ship, making himself much easier to gank. Sure he had no cargo but there could be other reasons why he was targeted. Perhaps instead of cherry picking one kill over a week ago and trying to say this is some kind of good statistical analysis, look at lots of them and you will see trends. Seems like the guy that got that freighter kill makes profit in most cases and the one you linked is an anomaly.
I’ve looked through several days worth or Arks and Charon ganks and you’re incorrect, most do not fit cargo expanders!
Most also had a good haul of loot that dropped as well (or plastic wraps inside), making it worth attacking them even if they were tanked. Many were cargo expander or inertia stabilizer fit as well. Anyway, I don’t need to bother trying to convince you if you fail to look at the evidence right in front of your eyes.
I am looking at the evidence.
You said that you knew haulers.
This was incorrect.
I picked a random gank, it wasn’t cherry picked. You asked for a trend. There is one and it’s not ‘all haulers fit expanders’ as per your previous post.
The evidence is in front of me. But I guess we are interpreting it different depending on our playstyles.
It’s simply too easy to kill a freighter, as shown above one guy with 20 alts can do it. There is no risk versus reward from the ganker using a 3m ship versus all the risk from the freighter pilot in a 1.2b ship and cargo. The math simply doesn’t add up.
But it was, I can counter your single cherry picked empty hauler with several cargo expanded ones that the same person killed and yielded a good loot drop. So your “evidence” is moot.
It is actually harder to kill freighters than before. Many people fly freighters every day with no issues. I wonder why that is? Probably it is not an accident.
So a single person/account should be guaranteed to outweigh 20 accounts. You reek of entitlement. If it is taking 20 to do it then that seems plenty fair. 20 people / accounts have to lose their ship, sec status, etc, plus be set up and coordinated to do the job. And you as a single person have tons of tools already to where you can aovid those 20 accounts doing anything to you.
Then imagine comparing apples to apples. Put in the same effort. I bet if you hauled your cargo using 20 accounts to escort, split up, help with intel, web, whatever your cargo wouldn’t be ganked either. But you don’t want to put in the same effort as the gankers (or even the tiny fraction needed), you want to whine how come 20 accounts can gank your 1 account. What a joke.
It’s a funny thing on here that when someone like yourself is countered with a reasonable argument you autmatically move to the ‘eNTitlEmeNt’ route or be passive aggressive.
There’s no need, why not just be an adult about it and be civil.
Of course there is the bigger picture to this too.
These ships used for ganking after the industry changes use minerals from HS and it’s predicted these ship will be cheaper to throw away making the risk reward ratio even more stretched.
It’s also widely reported and confimed by CSM members that hauling goods will be the new norm around New Eden after the industry changes.
It would simply be nice to see using a freighter, some sort of counter gameplay involved while under attack. To reward people that are at their keyboards (which CCP has stated they want more of instead of AFK’ers in all areas of gameplay).
I’m not demanding that they make them invincible, just more rewarding to fly!
You don’t have a reasonable argument, thus you are the one with the sense of entitlement.
Already there is plenty of counter play to avoid losing your precious cargo if you aren’t AFK. No need for an OP “I win” button to be added. Like a lot of PVP in EVE, much of the victory in a fight revolves around what happens before the fight even starts. Being attacked while hauling is no exception.
But you are. Nothing short of invincible will make you happy. If it’s not rewarding then contract the hauling job to people that are hauling properly and focus on other things to reward your time.