The Orca will still have utility and value even with these changes.
When I need to and it makes sense to, I will. I’m not going to avoid it like a carebear would avoid it just because I seek to maximize safety and AFKness at all costs.
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This whole patch is just a bunch of shady ■■■■.
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I will be so glad to commit 7b to boost others yey…
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Considering this change largely affects “carebears”, I don’t think using that as a slur will have the intended effect 
But in all seriousness, cost/risk is a major factor in all of eve decision making, as you just said - when it is needed and makes sense, you do it. Fielding a significantly more expensive ship for extended periods of time and gaining extremely small returns on that increased investment doesn’t make sense from a cost/risk assessment, even in highsec.
Some people will still do it because they trained into the Orca so they’re gonna fly it, risk or no risk. But many people will look at the numbers after this change and decide they don’t need to and it doesn’t make sense.
There’s nothing wrong with calculating one’s risks in Eve, but creating this disparity between the cost to make it and its benefit on the field mirror one of the issues that helped start the indy changes: ships not being used for their proper role. Carriers were so cheap they were being used to the exclusion of a lot of other ships; it doesn’t make military sense that you would field a fleet of capital-class without a significant platform of support vessels surrounding them, but that’s what happened because price and effectiveness encouraged it. Inversely, making larger ships too ineffective or too costly will end up with them rarely being fielded, which is a long-term denial of content and something that we’ve been experiencing for the last year with combat-oriented capital ships and with rorquals supporting mining fleets.
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Calm down, miners.
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It’s funny how CCP try hard to balance the game economy by nerfing mining stuff, adjusting blueprints components, rebalancing the moons compositions, etc etc
When In reality the main cause of all this shiit is the skill injectors allowing someone to spawn 10 Rorqual drivers overnight. Not even able to take the right decision because that will hit the wallet, even if the player count drop year after year since 2016
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I think this does address the concerns at least I had. Of course, you’re never going to make every single person happy but as long as:
- newer/less space-rich players can mine without feeling ashamed (i.e. lower yield but no wastage for t1 miners)
- existing uses for mining frigates are not taken away.
I’m a little perplexed as to how the mining gap was calculated? Supposedly it includes boosts since Core active would not matter for barges otherwise? I am no rorq pilot myself, but having experience with the porp/orca, I think it would make sense if the support ships (orca, rorq and porpoise) could mine about the same amount as an unboosted hulk at their peak efficiency. Because you’re bringing boosts and a larger hold to the table it makes sense to have a support ship with the fleet, but if the support ship mines about as much (or more) than a boosted hulk (which is a paper-thin and fairly expensive ship anyhow) then why bother with a barge/exhumer?
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You don’t think the changes to barges and exhumers might somehow be a hint from CCP that they want multiboxers to use them?
Do you not remember how mining was done prior to Rorq and Orca mining?
The Orca went from 100% Drone ore mining bonus to 75%. 25% loss overall
Rorqual went from 500% to 300%. 40% loss overall
Hmmm, I’m no mathematician but would seem the Rorqual came off worse than the Orca
I’d be up to see that… Nerf both equally. Rorqual took a 40% hit to drone mining, give it to the Orca as well.
For both of these ships their primary role is fleet support [as they were originally designed]. ANY mining they can do is a bonus but that’s not what you’re asking for is it. You want them left as what they were changed to, solo mining machines that can be easily multiboxed.
You can still multibox your Orcas - It will simply take you a little longer to strip a belt on your own
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I did not mind the idea of waste what i did mind was that tech was the only path to negating waste when they could have worked waste negation into the mining skill 3 percent per rank of mining skill
BWP = Base Waste Probability
SRM = Skill Rank Modifier
MUM - Mining Upgrade Modifier
TWP = Total Waste Probability
Tier BWP SRM MUM TWP
tier 1 34% -15% -3% 16%
Tier 2 29% -15% -6% 8%
Ore unit 22% -15 % -6 % 1%
Drones would follow t the same logic
t1 50% T2 25% Augmented 13% and excavator 1%
It would be a logical technological progression
I cannot speak to the rorqual or Orca discussion but as a porpoise pilot i am somewhat disappointed that I am not getting compression as far as crystals go i think they should increase efficiency up to the point where they could possibly overcome the waste probability modifier
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I’m not buying it - CCP took advantage of the player base and violated our trust in the worst way. We bought into scarcity to save the game and they never let up. Pandemic could have been so much less horrible if we had the game to escape to without being abused by the draconian changes last 2 years.
I really don’t care anymore, Its not fun to play I’m not gonna pay. I like to Rat for good Isk & I like to mine and get lots of valuable Imaginary ore that I can use to build Imaginary spaceships … which you also destroyed and made nearly impossible. I’m not sure your gonna be able to recover from this .
No Trust at all.
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This is pretty much the entire reason for the rage for the last week or so. Yes, the patch as first presented was not so good (and maybe it’s still not so good; that’s what we’re still discussing like reasonable adults), but it was the final straw in two years of not-so-good straws. People en masse decided that enough was enough. And a lot of fireworks were let off! 
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Hello there,
One thing I must admit i do not understand is the the fact that CCP tried their best to get people to split using BRM or distribution of ressources and all of that and yet in this patch we see no change to the rorq mechanics in itself only number tweaking…
So for month CCP tried to give the player an incentive to spread over and now once there is the opportunity to keep on doing it they kindda go on the opposite direction (just like the crab beacons you might say), why ?
Let me explain myself, I my opinion rorquals are 99% used for mining and in 80% of the case only in either very safe space (IE under umbrellas or deep space). The use of panic into cyno into umbrella is by default broken…
Can we have a boosting rorqual that would be modular just like T3Cs for example ? Like :
- I want my rorq to be in the same state as the patch is going IE core + a bit of mining + panic + stronk tank
- I want my rorq to be the god boosting ship it should be IE no core required for links but no panic and 0 mining, no active tank boost nothing
I truely hope something like that could get implemanted so that rorq usage actully goes up even in regions where theres no umbrella but if you do get caught it wont be long untill you die
WRONG. Orca went from 150% initially , down to 125% with the CiC T2 and now with this iteration they bringing it down again down to 75% with the CiC T2 50%. Orca at best have augmented drone Faction 40% waste 37m3… Not good, T2 20% waste 33m3, T1 no waste 25m3)
VS
Rorqual 500% → 300% -40% the Rorqual retains it’s Excavator drone 60% waste 80m3
No matter how you look at it the Rorqual is still a powerhouse of mining industrial , the nerf to it was well deserved for years , the main culprit being the Excavator drone having a base of 80m3 is just insane. +142% difference which well make up for the 60% waste making the waste trivial at that rate.
why on earth would i want to multibox Orcas??? Even before the nerf i don’t see a point to multibox orcas , i’d rather have the Orca boosting an exhumer.
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First, I agree with Idea that “Industrial Command Ship should be “Commander”, not only Rorq swarming and mining”.
And then, I have opinion about some details.
1.Strip Miner’s T1/T2
At the cost of Hard Fit resource and High Skill needed, T2 Module should superior at Main Role Performance.
If T1 Strip Miner’s Mining Amount is 675 and T2’s Mining Amount is 450 and cycle time is same, what would happen?
Let’s consider the case T2 Strip Miner and TypeA T1 crystal are used.
Mining Amount = 450*1.5=675
Waste Probabllity = 34% (1/4 of Belt’s Ore is Lost to Void)
Need Fit resource = More
Need Skill = More
Next, Let’s consider the case T1 Strip Miner are used.
Mining Amount = 675
Waste Probabllity = 0% (All of Belt’s Ore is Yours)
Need Fit resource = Less
Need Skill = Less
There is nothing good about T2 case.
Wrong with using T1 crystal? If say that, T1 Strip Miner used nothing, like civilian turret.
T2 Module should “not inferior at all Main Role Performance, and some Main Role Performance is superior”
Above T2 Strip Miner is, use analogy, T2 turret that have damage and range same as T1, and tracking inferior… and even with thelabor of changing crystal.
I have a suggenstion.
T1 Miner’s Waste Probabllity should be worse to same as T2.
and then, crystal should be performance that,
Crystal A: Same Mining Amount as T1 Miner, more Good Waste Probabllity than T1 Miner
Crystal B: Same Waste Probabllity as T1 Miner, More Good Mining Amount than T1 Miner
Crystal B: More Bad Waste Probabllity than T1 Miner, More Good Mining Amount than Crystal B
This performance is straightforward match for Role of T2 in TierReside, in other words, “Not superior for all, but Specialized superior”
2.Compression
CCP say to want “Industrial Command Ship will be Industrial Commander”, but Nerf Performance of Industrial Commander. It is bad.
More new things to could compress, but other new elements cause boring pain to Industrial Command Player.
3.“Compact Industrial Core” s Name
“Compact” is TierReside’s prefix, should change other prefix…example, “Small Industrial Core” etc.
4.Procurer/skiff’s defense stats
“our end goal is to significantly increase the EHP of all barges and all exhumers as well as their mining yield.” …Except for Procurer/skiff.
So now they moved the waste to the tech2 miners? What a fkn joke… Tech 1 crap has zero waste and tech2 (some of the most used modules in this game) now has 40% waste? Are you fkn mad?!?
Why cant be Faction 0%; tech 2 10%; tech 1 20%? Or something along those lines?
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Idk about you but combat commands do awfully well at PVP whilst providing boosts
It is good to see the unreasonable nerfs to the Prospect reverted. I still think that the Venture should lose its gas yield bonus or at least not have such a big bonus because it is just a T1 frigate and one that you even get for free.
What irks me about this paddling back is your phrase that you value a play-style. If that was really the case why did CCP try to remove it in the first place without any explanation or reasoning? It is good that you are still capable of seeing reason but it would spare you so much trouble if you would use the reason beforehand and not after almost the entire community clubbed your thick skulls over your ignorance.
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It must be so much fun in opposite land.
@CCP_Psych Thank you for the update.
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