Not sure what this has to do with the post you replied to but yes Orcas, like every other ship die when players do dumb shite.
Having direct experience with it, I can honestly say that you can fill up that ore hold multiple times and still come back for more.
And no, a single jump doesn’t represent a lot of expense. It represents a lot of mobility and utility. Get your Jump Fuel Conservation trained up. A 5.56LY jump in a JF w/JFC 5 is 13,909 isotopes. The same jump, in the same pilot, in a Rorqual takes 11,127 topes.
And being able to get to the good resources more easily and more quickly will more than make up for the cost. After the update, once the industrial conduit jump is in, get some friends with barges or exhumers, and use the rorq to jump them around for a share of their take.
do you think that Is it possible to fill 300,000 m3 in compressed mine by mining alone?
OMG yes - unless you are in LS - then maybe - but in NS you can fill the 300K with compressed ore several times a day easily - especially if you have several moons coming out
I have a few ideas you may consider.
First for the waste. Do Not make it RNG % but rather a % of the yield so when you mouse over your lasers it would display yield per cycle with brackets (Yield_white+Waste_Red) showing right before the #m3/s. And Not make Scanners useless.
Second make the waste small additive like 30m/3 per cycle and skills and anything that reduces waste a multiplier. Only T1 lasers would have Zero waste, Striper T1 would have 5% base and reduced by skills. Skills should reduce waste by 4/8/12/16/20%. T2 would have 10% larger yield and 10% waste.
As for the barges and exhumers.
They should all have base stats like the procurer/skiff now and base Ore hold 15,000 for barge and 20,000 for exhumers. And to keep to the Fun experience of play style I came up with these ideas so they do not change to much from what they are now. But when fully buffed via Porpoise/Orca/Rorqual they should have Equal yield m3/s when using top gear.
Covetor/Hulk the speed demon get in, and get out.
Covetor
Role bonus
- 25% Reduction cycle rate and Activation cost. fastest Cycle rate Base Miner
- Increased Agility +10% to alignment time Base
-2 High slots 3 Med slots 3 Low
-Drone Bandwidth 25
-5% Increased Strip miner range per skill point
-5% Increase to Shield Hitpoints per Barge point
-2% per Barge point Reduction cycle rate and Activation cost.
Hulk
Role Bonus
-25% Reduction cycle rate and Activation cost.
-Increased agility 12.5%
-2 High slots 4 Med slots 3 Low
-Drone Bandwidth 50
-5% Increased Strip miner range per barge skill point
-5% Increase to Shield Hitpoints per Barge point
-2% per Barge point Reduction cycle rate and Activation cost.
-3% per Exhumer point Reduction cycle rate and Activation cost.
-6% Shield Resistance per Exhumer point
Retriever/Mackinaw the Yield Master.
Retriever
Role bonus
- 25% Increased Yield
-2 High slots 3 Med slots 3 Low
-Drone Bandwidth 25
-5% Increase to Armor Hitpoints per Barge point
-2% per Barge point Increased Yield
-Increased 10% Ore hold per Barge Point
Machinaw
Role Bonus
-25% Increased Yield
-30% Increased Armor Repair and Reduction to Acitvation cost.
-2 High slots 3 Med slots 4 Low
-Drone Bandwidth 50
-5% Increase to Armor Hitpoints per Barge point
-2% per Barge point Increased Yield
-Increased 10% Ore hold per Barge Point
-3% per Exhumer point Ore Yield and 15% Ore hold
-4% Armor Resistance per Exhumer point
Procurer/Skiff the Drone Master
Procurer
Role bonus
50% Drone Damage, Hitpoints and Mining Yield/-Ice cycle rate
100% Logistic Drone Transfer
-2 High slots 3 Med slots 3 Low
-Drone Bandwidth 25
-5% Increase to Shield Hitpoints Per Barge Point
Skiff
Role Bonus
75% Drone Damage, Hitpoints and Mining Yield/-Ice Cycle rate
100% Logistic Drone Transfer and Very Large Drone bay Allowing the use of 1 Excavator Drone
Drone bay 1,200
-2 High slots 4 Med slots 3 Low
-Drone Bandwidth 50
-5% Increase to Shield Hitpoints per Barge point
-6% Shield Resistance per Exhumer point
-#% per Exhumer point increase to drone mining yield/-ice cycle rate
***(reason I left just # is I was not sure what number is needed to make sure the skiff = the other 2 in m3/s when fully porpoise/orca/rorqual buffed)
While keeping to what they are currently this would change how you play both solo and in group.
Now for the compression units a completely different thought.
Just like Storing your ship into a ship’s hanger, right click and there should be a Compress my Ore button and auto compresses the ore in your ore bay without having to load it into the players ship. If you must make it only active while indy core is on it would be understandable.
as for the unit in a high slot keep it simple but more like this… seperate units for ICE/GAS/ORE t1/t2 but no specific types other then that. This unit would act like a sperate ORE HOLD for what you put in it like COMPRESSED Veldspar, only holds compressed ores… once you place a type of compressed ore, it will take that type from your ore hold like reloading ammo when you right click on it and click the load compressed ore on it.
Porpoise Compression Unit holds t1-10,000m3 / t2- 15,000m3
Orca Compression Unit holds t1-25,000m3 / t2-35,000m3
Rorqual Compression Unit holds t1-45,000m3 / 60,000m3
Skill points increase ore hold in units by 2% per point.
Doing this you could add addition units to increase your ability to hold compressed ore at the cost of your high slots. and a fuller ship is more risk but would also make it better at transporting large sums of ore too.
I saw people link an industrial jump bridge module, but is it known already that it will also allow conduit jumps?
That would be disastrous if true.
A jump bridge for industrials is a good choice to give the Rorqual more utility.
However, Conduit jump will allow entire mining fleets to instantly extract to safety when a hostile fleet jumps into system, which I think is not a good addition to the game.
With just a regular jump bridge a Rorqual can extract a mining fleet to safety as well, except not instantaneous, and it wil require the other miners to pay attention to get themselves to safety.
A conduit jumping Rorqual would simply take all miners within range with him to safety, which includes the miners that aren’t even paying attention or are AFK.
I really hope the jump bridge module will only allow regular bridges for industrials, not conduit jumps.
1 Like
My main concern now is that the owners of Athanors should be making as much ISK per Ore mined as an owner was making before all these changes started two years ago. I fear that the end result will be less profit for owners. Fuel Prices and or Fuel Consumption of Athanors needs to come down.
I’m sorry but you kind of prove my point though if you have to use C crystal example because 93% is close to 100%. People are confused by T2 math. They also forget they will get 200% of everything to mine for in any way. Also existence of ORE miners is omitted as if they don’t exist.
Olmeca spirit lives on and I like it in this example.
@CCP_Psych @CCP_Rattati
Waste mechanic sounds like a really big mistake. Its potential loss, but still the loss. And in human psychology losses are perceived twice as intense as gains.
There’s a great GDC talk on psychology of loss aversion Board Game Design Day: Board Game Design and the Psychology of Loss Aversion
At 17:40 of the video they offer an excercise:
A deadly desease is spreading! If nothing is done 600 people will die.
Choice A: 200 people will be saved.
Choice B: 1/3 chance 600 people are saved. 2/3 chance no people are saved.
Choice C: 400 people will die.
Choice D: 1/3 chance no people will die. 2/3 chance 600 people will die.
72% of players choose A over B, 78% of players choose D over C. Even though A = C and B = D.
Framing is key. And with Waste mechanic you are forcing people do the “wrong” choice. And people would rather not do wrong choice, thus stop playing.
If you wanted to introduce offensive mining, as a way to spoil enemy asteroids fields, which is great btw, would you consider conventional weapons do damage to asteroids. Combat ship locust fleets. Make asteroids destructible objects. And even, make mining lasers a real weapon which could deal damage to ships, and x3-x5 (or whatever the right ratio is) to asteroids.
Tractor beam/webifier tiericede?
2 Likes
And keep minerals in Highsec moons. 
3 Likes
Unless it was the entry gate, you do spawn more than 2km from it
150bil isk autopiloting orca. The killmail was linked in local back in the day, all those BPOs were fully researched, so it would have been >1000 bil on the contracts markets
1 Like
It spawns 12.5km off the gate boundary, but after it warped to the destination gate by autopilot, it will approach within 2km by slowboating. Dessies aren’t good at bumping orcas, but even if they were, CODE’s so busy microing their 20 alts when they clap an orca that they would mess up the bumping most likely. I’ve seen the Odin suicide gankers do their buisness quite a few times, they don’t bump.
Note that you can jump a stargate when you’re 2km away from it, which is what the autopilot would do i think, so it might as well be someone who warped zero to the gate manually, and then went afk before the orca arrived at the destination. But given how his ship is fit, and what’s in the cargo hold, he most likely became a suspect by looting wrecks of other players at the stargate, and then got clapped over it.
Odin’s good crimewatch content. It produces hundreds of criminals every hour, at least while the “customs office” is online. You don’t go there without a scout, and even less on autopilot.
Not like they really need to, I saw a swarm of them popping one in less than 10 seconds
These people, whether or not their pricing is absurd is up to your jurisdiction… to me it’s pretty expensive, though I can see that once your standings are low enough to force you running lvl1 missions for weeks to repair, you’d just pay USIA instead
1 Like
Last time I tryed to clap a hull tanked orca in 0.5 sec, me and my corpmates had more then 20 dessies but we failed nevertheless <.<
That said, 20 dessies are about 10k dps. An orca has 160k ehp w/o any tank fit on it, so it should take them 16 seconds or longer (approaching, alt-tabbing through the alts to have them start the attack, …), and, at a stargate, the gate guns will have roasted some dessies already by the time CONCORD lands on grid.
Yeah I figured, around 1 billion for caldary navy 5 rep, you must be a real trading mogul to make those back from saved broker fees only
This is more amendable but still needs work
Waste Mechanic
-
It is being used as an excessive nerf tool still on orca/rorqual platforms
-
I don’t like the idea of Waste PVP in highsec.
- Timezone miners will have an excuse to burn ore to raise prices
- Large groups of wealthy players could just go from system to system burning ore because they can.
-
A Compromise to the waste mechanic would be a limited implementation with only Crystals effecting it, but C-Types are banned in highsec and will result in concord response. To Clarify that would be no waste mechanic on any module or drone, only the strip miners with B or C Crystals.
-
If Ice Mining waste is removed completely then RNG waste could be removed and have a more sensible waste of % of the ore mined and more easily balanced and explained.
Regarding Compression
- Would it not be a first step to implement compression on the orca as it exists for the rorqual with the addition of the compact industrial cores.
- Is it not possible to implement moon ore compression with the existing compression system? Surely there are existing databases that could be expanded to allow it.
Ore Holds
- Regarding Ore hold being broken down into 3 Types, Is this really needed? The current ore hold can already handle Ore/Gas/Ice.
- I feel 3 Ore Holds will not be utilized in the majority of situations and otherwise bloat the UI needlessly.
- Is the hoarders Ammo Bay being Molested? The Majority of Hoarders exist in the game to carry 3200 Cap Booster charges inside capital’s SMAs, this is a feature that is removed it will result in excess hoarders and annoyed players.
Closing the Mining Gap
This is much more agreeable except
- Rorqual/Orca Waste is Excessive
- Orcas/Porpoise/Ventures/Prospects/Endurance Fell off the Graph
- Mackinaw and Covetor being at yield parity feels odd somehow.
Barges/Exhumers Looking forward to this
- EHP Increases sound like a plan,
- I the Ore Hold/Yield Ratio for the Covetor/Hulk should be double what it currently is, to reduce the apm to make it more compliant with human gameplay instead of bots or banned augmented gameplay like input multiplexing.
- Bot/input multiplexing Policing, please make a system of automatic flagging for a GM to investigate bots in nullsec if a large number of Barges are being utilized. Example GM Pops into system invisible, then observes behaviors of the pilots. This should not be up to the plays to solely self police and flag.
Moon mining
I hope you decide to not do the bad touch to the R4 Moon Ores.
Resource Distribution
How many of those plans were made public? #ThePlotThickens! A Definition of what exactly Dynamic Distribution is intended to do would be nice.
Blueprints
Having Just Purchased/Researched a set of Crystal BPOs having duplicates afterwards and having to repurchase new ones is very annoying. A plan could be implemented to convert these without introducing duplicates.
Cov Ops Porpoise, Prospect/Endurance superfriend
People were talking about a cov ops porpoise - I wouldn’t mind seeing one in the game, But I don’t know how I feel about it getting a dedicated T2 Skillbook for it, maybe if it were introduced as a faction ship from ore LP store.
Industry Changes
Prior Changes - Still not content with the overall outcome of the industry patch/build costs or the reductions in materials. I remember 60mil Tier 1 battleships, the price ramp on battleships over the years feels massively inflated. Especially when its largely related to increased materials being shoved in them.
ISK
BRM’s are also a very poorly implemented system that is buffing bots through the law of averages, is unfairly targeting sov nullsec. If you are deadset on a diminishing return system it should be applied to individual players instead of systems, this would directly apply to bots well being less punitive to casual players. It could also be expanded to replace commodity ratting with bounties to have a universal wage garnishing system to prevent overfarming of isk by a handful of players.
- Effectively emulate an income tax bracket system with diminishing returns, this will reduce botting heavily and incentivize players diversify their game activities. I’m not going to makeup numbers here, that would require the per-capital isk data that I don’t have access to.
- Remove the majority of commodities from the game instead rolling them into bounty payouts, this would fairly implement the system to all isk faucets
1 Like
This, random mechanics suck. @CCP_Psych
They did it RNG because ice isn’t compatible with other methods.
Alternatively just get rid of the waste mechanic outside of the B or C crystals and make it a percentage based rather than RNG.