From Extraction To Production: Update

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Ashterothi

Fair point, it was one part me being cheeky and one part not wanting people to get the impression that compression, including it’s loss, is likely coming eventually. The main problem was the technical problem of loading the ore for the compressor.

I don’t think this is an unsurmountable problem, and I expect we’ll see it next year, like the blog suggests.

[Arrendis]

@Brisc_Rubal

I don’t think you can make that argument in good faith.

Here’s one I can make in good faith:

T1. Only ever use T1 modules. T1 Strip miners don’t use any crystals. No complexity. No waste. Just takes longer. But who cares? The AFK orca pilots who now use T1 drones to get twice as much from the same rock over twice the time… so they need to move even less?

The guy running a bunch of alts already who just adds another few to get double the amount in the same time for less money at risk because he’s using Covetors with a couple of Rorqs for panic instead of 8 rorqs.

[Jin_Endares]

Cautiously optimistic.

Gotta see what those barge changes will be though.

[Fartsniffer_Munba]

@Brisc_Rubal

I don’t think you can make that argument in good faith.

I can.
And I’ll try.
The one who did this changes clearly doesn’t know how people mine.

Unless you can get an overwhelming manpower on a belt (not in current nullsec which everybody quit), you will only mine the money rocks, and leave everything else on a field to decay. It’s the same for both belts, anoms, and moons.

But now, with T2 current waste, you’ll be getting less of the money ore, if you try to mine it with T2. As a result, those number basically FORCE a miner to use T1 equipment and T1 drones. Money rocks are sparse. You cannot waste them. There’s not even nearly enough of them for what’s left of the miners. Wasting them will not be tolerated, neither by organization, nor miner himself.

And, needless to say, a buffed T1 is still worse than old T2. Therefore, we’re dealing with a BLOODY NERF.

@Brisc_Rubal

And my point about the net positive was in reference to what I hope to see from the compression changes when they’re reworked to not be the insane time sink waste of time they were in the original post.

Any compression is better than no compression. We’re getting no compression instead of any compression. I fail to see the positive side here.

[Ashterothi]

You are fighting over the “bonus” ore added to the rock (rocks were doubled as part of this so even at 100% waste you end up with the same stuff as before, it only goes up without C crystals)

So yes, you can either mine slowly, carefully, and thus waste less, or you can chew whole mountains down quickly but lose a significant portion of what could have been captured with more care.

I do like the idea of giving Ventures a modual that allows them to hoover up local waste as it is generated…

[Tsumi_Tzestu]

@Fartsniffer_Munba

Any compression is better than no compression. We’re getting no compression instead of any compression. I fail to see the positive side here.

they are leaving the current compression mechanic to station and rorqual , instant no loss, until 2022 when they revisit it… so you gain nothing you lose nothing.

[Ashterothi]

@Fartsniffer_Munba

Any compression is better than no compression. We’re getting no compression instead of any compression. I fail to see the positive side here.

it was pulled for technical reasons, not design reasons. They didn’t want to pull it, even if they would tweak it, but the technical issue was untennible.

[Arrendis]

@Fartsniffer_Munba

Any compression is better than no compression. We’re getting no compression instead of any compression. I fail to see the positive side here.

Compression that costs you money isn’t better than no compression. No compression preserves ROI and requires the effort to be in for the form of transport, but bad compression required the same effort in terms of highly-active multiple-click requirements. Manually refilling 5 modules over and over again.

[Ashterothi]

You mean I can compress gas and moon goo in stations instantly?

I know what you mean, but when that is the one thing that was dangled in front of us since July it seems ironic that it is in the end having to be pulled out of this release.

[Arrendis]

@Ashterothi

I do like the idea of giving Ventures a modual that allows them to hoover up local waste as it is generated…

I think a way to salvage waste for newbies would have been great, yeah. Like following the ratters/missioners around and getting the salvage to make money.

[Ashterothi]

That is EXACTLY what I likened it to.

[Jim_Halescott]

@Lugues_Slive

Orca got hit hard, huge reduction in yield, decent increase in fuel usage, no increase in boosting (over what is already on SiSi), no compression. Going to see a lot of Orcas on the market soon.

Who cares about yield?
Orca was never supposed to be a mining ship
It’s a support ship… I still cannot understand why people cannot seem to get this through their heads

Years ago, before ongrid boosts were a thing, the Orca was never a mining ship, it was a support ship back then
If I go back to mining again (if ever), I’ll have maybe 10 Exhumers, 1 Freighter and 1 Orca ongrid, like back in the old days, circa 2014

[Fartsniffer_Munba]

@Tsumi_Tzestu

they are leaving the current compression mechanic to station and rorqual , instant no loss, until 2022 when they revisit it… so you gain nothing you lose nothing.

That is incorrect. I gain nothing, true. But I lose on the Orca nerfs.

@Ashterothi

it was pulled for technical reasons, not design reasons. They didn’t want to pull it, even if they would tweak it, but the technical issue was untennible.

That’s what they are lying about.
It worked on Sisi. Clunky, but it did.
I would take that over nothing.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Fartsniffer_Munba

I can.
And I’ll try.
The one who did this changes clearly doesn’t know how people mine.

Unless you can get an overwhelming manpower on a belt (not in current nullsec which everybody quit), you will only mine the money rocks, and leave everything else on a field to decay. It’s the same for both belts, anoms, and moons.

But now, with T2 current waste, you’ll be getting less of the money ore, if you try to mine it with T2. As a result, those number basically FORCE a miner to use T1 equipment and T1 drones. Money rocks are sparse. You cannot waste them. There’s not even nearly enough of them for what’s left of the miners. Wasting them will not be tolerated, neither by organization, nor miner himself.

And, needless to say, a buffed T1 is still worse than old T2. Therefore, we’re dealing with a BLOODY NERF.

Did they reduce the waste numbers for some of the modules? Yes. Is that what people asked them to do? Yes.

@Fartsniffer_Munba

Any compression is better than no compression. We’re getting no compression instead of any compression. I fail to see the positive side here.

The same compression that exists now will continue to exist until they can get a better UX next year. I’d rather them take the time to do it right than throw in a horrible mechanic that was absurdly complicated and time consuming.

I hear this all the time from players - they’d rather CCP not half ass and short cut things, and instead get it right the first time. They know they can either get it done right or get it done fast, but they can’t get both, and I prefer them doing it right.

You may not, and that’s fine. I figure you’ll just keep throwing tantrums until you get banned again and then make another alt.

[Ash_Beldrulf]

1. Will the Porpoise have to use the Compact Indy Core?
2. Will the Orca and Porpoise get a fuel bay?
3. Why are there so many compression modules and not 3 or 4 like the reprocessing skills?
4. Will the Orca and Porpoise get a Panic Module like the Rorq uses?
5. Where are the gas Harvesting Drones? I am a command ship pilot and I would come on grid if I can benefit in some way.

I am still very upset about this stuff and CCP is going the wrong direction with every thing in scarcity!

[Jim_Halescott]

As a random comment, due to how the Orca and Porpoise pilots are feeling left out
Have it so that mining drones from Mining Frigates, Barges and Exhumers, can be programmed to be controlled by the Orca and Porpoise pilot.
The drones will deposit directly into the Orca/Porpoise then
Of course the owning ship still needs to be ongrid to provide bandwidth, but that will give those command ships a MASSIVE, and fair buff, and give other mining ships a reason to use mining drones in the first place

[Lugues_Slive]

@CCP_Psych

while still giving it worth-while mining yield such that it’s not a position relegated to AFK-alt status

So if my numbers are correct, the Orca’s “worth-while mining yield” is 14.4m3/s with T2 drones, or less than 1 T1 Strip Miner on an unboosted Hulk.

[Death_Killer21]

PRAISE BE TO CCP FOR NOT LISTENING TO A FRIGGING THING THAT WE SAID!

Tech 1 modules - No waste
Tech 2 modules - Waste

HUH???

Rorquals - Right click - Trash it.

Orcas - Right click - Trash it.

[Jim_Halescott]

An Orca Is Not A Mining Ship

[Fartsniffer_Munba]

@Brisc_Rubal

Did they reduce the waste numbers for some of the modules?

And increased for others, that did not need that increase. Definitely the opposite of what was asked.

@Brisc_Rubal

Is that what people asked them to do?

No. They were asked to keep waste locked to B and C crystals, where it, you know, made actual sense.
What they did does not make sense.

@Brisc_Rubal

You may not, and that’s fine. I figure you’ll just keep throwing tantrums until you get banned again and then make another alt.

And you’ll always be a useless clown who’s got no spine to say things that have to be said. That’s why people can’t take you seriously, and never will.