Thats right, its an AFK boosting ship.
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A lot of players have bought into the Jita local hypernet spam about “Build your own industrial empire! Buy an Orca!”.
from what i can tell from this post…
- no the porpoise have it’s changed reverted so it won’t be able to compress nor use a compact industrial core.
- Orca yes porpoise no.
- cause CCP likes to complicate things , on SiSi i first spent 6mil SP skilling Industrial Core only to find it that was for the Rorqual and not the Orca… nice… hopefully on Live i won’t make the same mistake nor will others.
- No they won’t
5 non existant.
Agreed, this is so backward. when the real issue was the Rorqual having way too much of a yield and so efficient at it , it was better to buy multiple of Rorqual than anything else. so CCP instead decided you know what ? let’s nerf the Rorqual a tiny bit and kill off the Orca instead.
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there is one thing I’m sure i am not understanding.
Tech 1 Modules produce 0% waste
however T2 or faction modules will increase the waste production?
I suppose there is some unwritten variable there with the new crystals which we don’t know about.
but shouldn’t it be the other way around, that the lower grade equipment produces more waste?
I figure this would ultimately be bad for new player experience
but shouldn’t the natural progress be from
Mining lasers → t1 strip miners → t2 strip miners → faction
each teir producing LESS waste as you go.
i’m not trying to come across as rude, but am i actually reading this correctly? or have i misunderstood some factor?
Will The Orca and Rorqual recieve new boosts to help minimise waste for new players?
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Lol
GG to the hypernet peoples 
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Sweet summer child… you were expecting good faith arguments? 
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Do I need to remind you that it was Orca’s mining capability buff that actually made it viable to field one instead of another exhumer?
It was still mining less than a Procurer, but at least it was making it worth being on field. Now it won’t be.
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did I understand correctly that Orca got even more nerfs compared to the 1st iteration?
it’s cool if that’s the case!
That’s what they had - T1 most waste, less with T2 and none with faction.
Everyone complained about how it was going to kill newbro mining, so they listened and took that part out. Now we’ll have the exact opposite complaint because there’s little point using T2s on expensive rocks.
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ok, I cant say i like this any better than the initial changes.
Compression
for the compression modules, all you had to do was make a hold size difference between compact and capital, like compact compression gets 15k but the capital compression gets 20-25k hold. and make the compression cycle timers be reasonable the 60/90s timers were fine for the compact compression. now you just nerfed the cycle timers super hard for no reason. your just making me skill into the T2 version because it gives better yield and nothing else. I other wise would be fine and justified using the T1 version cuz of the shorter cycle times.
Mining Waste
IMO the initial waste probability wasnt even that bad. at the most it just needed some tweaking for frigate sized miners. the barges with the initial changes still mined MORE yield per cycle than they did on TQ currently and the yield only goes up as your waste goes down.
I will say though that the drone miners needed looking at but aside from drones and frig miners I personally didnt mind the mechanics you initially implemented.
Mining crystals/modules
crytsals are fine as is IMO. as for the modules they seemed fine to me as you still get an equal to more yield on sisi then on TQ. although the venture and other frigs were lacking in that, and the duration bonus just didnt seem worthwhile even if it is a few seconds sooner to cycle, it was only like a 6(ish) second difference IMO.
Orca changes
totally fine with for the most part. moving most of the drone bonuses to the indy core is smart to do. I am wondering if the indy reconfig skill affects the compact indy core?
mining frigs and porpoise
why? why not find a middle ground? will the prospect at least keep the extra mid slot? can the endurance at least get the flight of light drones? you couldve readjust the skills by half while buffing them in other areas as you proposed. all we wanted with them were to not be so non viable as miners, not that we didnt (entirely) want the proposed changes. i was looking forward to a 4 mid slot prospect. a middle ground couldve been achieved. as for the porpoise, it mainly needs a cargo increase, or if possible, a separate “compression hold” for the module. (after some further testing on inital changes the venture is fine. although T2 lasers should at least get less waste even if you have to modify the base mining yield)
Barges / Exhumers
I liked the changes made, along with what other people suggested as well to get them in just the right spot. when i tested them all, they all had the ability to mine the same amount, just at different cycle times which i like. and they mined more which was an even bigger positive for me IMO. with 3 mining upgrades it was 1700 for T1 strip miners and T1 crystals and 2k for T2 crystals (type A). i hope you guys will keep this similar amount at least in mining yield. I personally dont have too many problems with any of the other changes. (im mainly a covetor/hulk miner so it was all around wins for me)
Moon Mining
literally the one small thing i like about R4 rocks. maybe nerf the amounts of minerals.
overall im not so satisfied with the community knee jerk reactions and now these revised changes. I was looking forward to some of the things coming like the orca compression arrays but i guess ill just have to wait another 3-4 months if that. some of the complaints were valid like for the porpoise and mining frigates but for other things they were very over reactions to new changes.
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more like how it would kill alpha alt mining groups.
congrats now everyone will use alpha clones to farm resources. yay! isn’t this also part of the problem they were trying to get away from, the principle being team work is going to be superior to someone with many accounts?
what they should do is encorporate a waste reduction per ship.
this way alpha toons can still fly ventures and mine, however the ship will naturally produce X wastage
barges will produce slightly less
exhumers less than that.
link wastage to the ship and not the modules.
this way modules and crystals can be used to achieve either lower wastage rates or higher spoilage rates.
-edit- this also means omega accounts have the most choice and will produce least waste.
this could possibly just lead to a mining ship rework, on top of whats already done, finding that nice balance between alpha and omega for playability and enjoyability.
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Yes. Very much this.
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Just cant get over how much ccp have messed up here… Like they literally havnt listened once to us, theyve half listened.
Its like theyve half heard a story, thrown a tantrum and gone fine! In a strop we will rush release this! And then the csm have gone yeah go ccp, realised that actually this now instead of screwing new players, screws old players and benefits new players completly, and are throwing their own tantrums in the forums. Way to close your game ccp. You lost so much subs this week.
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No, they didn’t. Go look at the old tables. Tech I Modules, Tech I Drones and Tech II Drones are all far lower than the were before. Tech 2 modules are the same.
Read.
Right, because I haven’t been the loudest voice on the CSM about these changes and scarcity in general. You’re wasting everybody’s time. Stop it.
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First off…thanks for the review and update on changes.
So I’m not understanding the thinking with t1 vs t2 wastage. It seems like you are adding more waste with higher yield. Shouldnt it be the opposite. As you train up as a miner your wastage should decrease as u get access to better skills and equipment. So in effect as you invest more skills into the profession you are both increasing your yield and decreasing your wastage.
If you don’t make that the incentive than what is the point.
So t1 equipment, drones and crystals should have more wastage on it with t2 having those values decreased.
Also is it possible to use some kind of skill linked to reducing wastage as a whole.
This would further incentivise skill investment for career mining players.
Ex ( Astrogeolgy )
I think we’re getting closer to a better system
I’ll reply more after I look further.
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We told them that clunkyness was unacceptable, so they pulled it until they can fix it. It isn’t a conspiracy, it’s quite simple. They thought their solution was a good enough work around to the fact that it can only pull from that one hold, we told them that was unacceptable.
Jump tunnel changes worked on sisi too, but people hated them. They pulled them for nearly a year and only brought them back when they were much improved and now acceptable.
I mean he does kinda got you there…
I know I know, everyone’s trying to be all serious right now.
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As an orca pilot (mastery level 5) i’m quite happy to sit with my 30+ friends each weekend boosting for them and chatting with them. They remunerate me afterwards and we’re all happy. I know this is not how every orca pilot flys, but for some of us in highsec it’s a very social thing first.
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Argh, I can’t hold my tongue…
Honestly, I think it all boils down to this -the power miners want to keep making the big bucks, and the afk miners want to be able to maintain their afk income streams. The outraged bitter vets don’t care about intended ship use, game balance, capital proliferation, emergent game play opportunities, or newbros. You don’t ■■■■ with the money, and CCP ■■■■■■ with the money.
That’s all there is too it. I mean, CCP removed waste from T1 mods, and the bitters vets aren’t even bothering to pretend like they care. They just keep on complaining because their actual complaints still haven’t been addressed.
Edit: and let me be clear, not everyone who dislikes a change is a bitter vet, and not everyone who spoke out for newbro concerns was arguing in bad faith. Thus, when I say bitter vets, that does not mean every miner, nor every one that has a valid criticism.
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According to the post the Venture and Expedition frigates aren’t getting any changes, which I assume means they’re keeping the gas harvesting bonuses.
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Okay maybe I’ll calm down a bit and try this a different way. You guys always lump all players into the same heap. Null Sec, Lowsec, Highsec. These are totally different animals, they run differently play styles are totally different. Null sec as an example is where i play and here are some points. small rental corp btw.
Quote:
Compression is a vital part of the Resource Redistribution phase as it will allow for significantly better logistics and trade. We want this to be a feature of the Industrial Command Ships, but we also want the user experience to be good, too. To that end, the update to compression will be delayed to early 2022 as we re-evaluate the implementation. Until then, existing compression methods will remain unchanged.
We have our own Athanor and Raitaru so we make things here. We only use compression in the Rorq when mining to be able to stay on station longer for the most part. Cant be used when moon mining so we have a hauler. We dont haul stuff to lowsec/highsec to sell other than critical minerals. So for us anyways compression is not a big deal more of a bonus. Now you change that to a small Highsec corp most likely they roam around dont have their own refinery and sell their trit on the markets. So for them its important. You cant use the same fix on both, it doesnt work.
Quote:
One of our goals in this update was to elaborate on what it means to be a miner. Since the early days of EVE, mining has involved training some skills and flying one of a handful of ships that were deemed ‘the best’. There hasn’t been room for optimization or decision making, which is fundamentally not what EVE is about. With regards to the feedback around new players, we’ve altered the mechanics such that low yield modules have zero waste, and higher yield modules have more waste, following the paradigm established with the new mining crystals (see below).
To me this whole paragraph comes from someone who does not understand mining or even like that gameplay choice. " optimization or decision making " is the true definition of the Rorqual. Is Eve not about playing how you see fit to play to a certain degree ???
Quote :
As we transition the Rorqual from the absolute best solo mining ship to a more supportive role, offering PANIC, storing of ships, remote repairs, links, and a beefy tank, we want to ensure that these ships provide ample value on the field.
I think the word " solo " is fine in and of itself when considering the Rorqual its when the word solo is changed to MULTIPLE that things get out of hand. I have asked a few times why this cant be addressed and have not gotten any responses ??? Anyone from CCP ???
More to come time for supper.
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