Diary of Horace Wimp.
The entire ganker ethos against miners is maintained by a series of myths. The lazy, stupid, AFK, miner who never looks at d-scan, doesn’t tank up…etc, etc. But one has only to look at zKillboard for mining barges ganked to see that most are well tanked but simply cant cope with 15 Catalysts.
There’s always some ’ but you should have…’ from gankers and their supporters…by which the ‘blame’ gets shifted to the miner. Sort of akin to a burglar walking out of your front door with his swag and telling you its entirely your own fault you got burgled. Nothing to do with him being a burglar…oh no…he’s just there to ‘help’ you get better security. This level of logic would have Plato rolling in his grave.
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You win the internet tonight.
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Please make ships cheap again
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Nerfing miners won’t help.
Hello Hans,. My italics, above. Did I really use the word ‘brave’ in the sense you imply? Please do correct me by quoting the relevant passage, and I’ll accept it.
I have no idea what you’re getting at here. Please explain this ‘simple concept’ so that the ignorant, like myself, can benefit from your teaching.
Untrue. I want suitable targets in Highsec. They can be Mission-Runners, Miners, Haulers… Why is it only in Highsec that you lot think you shouls be completely safe?
I do not provide either of these.
Too simplistic, Hans. Again, I have not crowed about any of the changes; I simply note them and do my own calculations. If you have evidence that I have done so, produce it.
They didn’t nerf Catalysts this time around. I own it. Gankers also use Atrons, Thrashers, Talos’, Ruptures, Typhoons… Ganking has certainly been nerfed in the past. Can you refute that?
For someone who sets out to explain linguistic concepts, you quickly abandon any pretence of coherent and cogent expression. The proposed changes - and they are proposals as far as I can see - were designed not around making you easier to gank, but to give you choices and to make those choices challenging and engaging. Your ‘survivability’ is also affected by a number of unrelated conditions. It’s no fault of mine that you are disappointed.
Let’s say that there have been negative responses from 500 different miners/industrialists in these threads (an exaggeration, probably). What percentage of the playerbase is that? Who knows what the majority of players think of it all? Perhaps they’ll just carry on regardless when the changes drop - or leave.
Either way, you will not advance your own cause, trashing gankers and ganking, by aligning yourself with that very ‘cancel culture’ you seek to disparage.
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Hmm…
I think you like many others have read the related notes and heard something completely different.
The waste only effects the added 100% to resources when this get released on the live server.
So if not removing current resource amount, and adding the option to mine more for longer on grid, or mine larger yields or faster at bonus resource.
So for an hour you roughly mine the same as now, but using new better modules and crystals you do better, and throw Orca or Rorqual command bursts you mine heaps better.
So sadly you’ve misconception what the change will be. This could be from reading the original release details and not the updated. And carried misconception from there through all the updated information
Or - 2/3rds of what you mined prior to 2019.
Together with adding waste, the asteroid size is doubled. If you mine with 100% waste there is no difference, but if you mine more efficiently you will get more ore out of a belt.
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Thanks for your reply - You are the first person to not like the skill/crystal squish idea - i am sorry to hear that, but based on the overwhelming support I have gotten - I am not terribly concerned
As far as yield, EVERY barge or Exhumer got a buff to both unbonused and boosted scenarios
Sisi is NOT updated fully, so you can’t rely on those numbers, you have to do the math yourself - or you can look at the charts - if you specify a ship, I can give you details on exactly the before and after yields to help ease your nerves
As far as your EHP comments - I’ll let the people who worked on that answer for themselves
@Kenneth_Feld ideally there should be a list of what someone will mine for an hour with minimal skill requirements and maximum for each module/mining ship combo.
This would show the benefits of skilling up and meta upgrades.
T1 Frigate with T1 through to ORE Modules as a bear minimum skilled character, then the same again with higher skill character.
Same for the T2 frigates, T1 barges and T2 exhumers.
If you know anyone who might have knowledge to do tank for each and also supply the basic mining capabilities still would show players both the mining options and the tanked miner option
ffy…
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For the mining barges (procurer, retriever, covetor), the Strip Miner Duration bonus (via the Mining Barge Skill) was cancelled for all three hulls. Here are the numbers copied from OP:
Procurer
- mining barge skill / level: Strip Miner Duration: -2% (old); no bonus (new) i.e,. loss of 10% cycle time bonus
- Role bonus: no cycle time bonus (old and new)
Retriever
- mining barge skill / level: Strip Miner Duration: -2% (old); no bonus (new) i.e,. loss of 10% cycle time bonus
- Role bonus: no cycle time bonus (old and new)
Covetor
- mining barge skill / level: Strip Miner Duration: -2% (old); no bonus (new) i.e., loss of 10% cycle time bonus
- Role bonus: -25% flat bonus on Strip Miner Duration (old); -25% flat bonus on Strip Miner Duration (new)
All 3 hulls get a strip miner duration nerf of 10%, which is a net reduction of m3/sec of mining i.e. how long it takes to fill the ore hold. It is entirely possible that this is balanced out by the yield per cycle, but the numbers are not presented that way.
It would be helpful, if only for my understanding perhaps, if someone could provide the m3/sec numbers for the three barges, for simple ore mining, UNBOOSTED, assuming max skills for barges and all their equipment, with as many mining upgrades t2 that go into the low slots as they do currently on TQ, versus comparable new crystals (max skills) with the same equipment on the 3 barges (so no 3rd mining upgrade t2 for the extra low slot on the procurer).
Much obliged.
Why my focus on duration and not so much on yield ? Time ! The faster I can get the job done, the faster I can go do fun stuff. If your numbers prove that the m3/sec is not affected, fine and thank you for sharing.
P.S. could someone please convince the devs that it is important to mention the dimension and units on the axes of their graphs ?
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Although the duration bonus is going away, there are yield bonuses replacing them.
Taking only the skill level bonus changes into account, if you mine 450m3 (base yield from T2 strip miner) in 54 seconds in a mining barge, you’d now be mining 495m3 in 60 seconds. So you’d go from 8.33m3/sec to 8.25m3/sec.
However, that doesn’t take into account the increases to yield on the module itself. So with the changes on a T2 strip miner, you’d go from mining 450m3 in 54 seconds to mining 528 in 60, or a change from 8.33m3/sec to 8.8 m3/sec. That’s also not including the mining yield multiplier changing from 1.75 to 1.8 on the T2 mining crystals…
So, all in all, you should be mining more, but pulling it in less often.
ETA: On a skiff I can currently mine 21.9m3/s (1593m3 x2 every 146 seconds) unboosted, without implants, with T2 mining crystals. With the changes, I should be mining 23.5m3/sec (2115m3 x2 in 180 seconds), with the T2 type A crystal.
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support lol from were? u are a joke and only interested on your in-game wallet .yeah people love this patch like the industry one u where bragging left and right
Come to the forums to see any changes before i come back from a 4 month break and see CCP ruining the game even more. What a surprise!
All my accounts will stay unsubbed, CCP as usual has no idea what they are doing.
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what are u talking about @Kenneth_Feld is so happy about this patch to and the support he is getting … just look again at the patch and the new features …/…
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they want you to be boosted by an Orca / Rorqual with those , as the duration got shifted to the Orca Rorqual:
Orca(Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus T1 10% T2 15%)
Rorqual(Mining Foreman Burst Strength Bonus T1 36% T2 40%)
Who am i trying to kid here.
Orca
Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):
3% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst effect strength and duration (15% Strength)
Rorqual
Capital Industrial Ships bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Mining Foreman burst effect strength and duration (25% Strength)
Those got removed and placed in the Industrial Core instead , looks like the Rorqual got a massive buff while the orca got a nerf with the T1 and equal with the T2 (meaning if you don’t siege it’s a nerf for both).
Porpoise
Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):
2% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst effect strength and duration (10%)
Looks like the Porpoise will be the only one unaffected as it will retain it’s 10% cause it cannot use a CiC right? CCP right?
Therefor Orca is useless once again , Porpoise #1 all around for boosting and solo mining and compressing until you move to the Rorqual, Orca will only be used for transport as a “mid tier” between a DST and a Freighter. WoW… Way to kill off a nice ship guys.
Also it won’t change your strip miner duration as those Mining Foreman Burst effect strength were already present + your strip miner duration per level. Yep another straight up nerf all across the board. CCP you sneaky devil you.
Edit: @Kenneth_Feld You’re Delusional.
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what are u talking about you are the minority the support for this patch is overwhelming. @Kenneth_Feld destroy everything man u got the overwhelming support !!!
its prity clear that they did and they are doing there best to get this whole mining thing out of the hands of people like me that field 30 hulks and silver miner that fields 40 freaking rorqs. just that. make it so hard for anyone person to mass harvest anything, and forcing actual people to mine, in groups… together… You all hate this and its understandable. But this is what the game needs if we really want to se a market where its actually viable to mine in a group fleet in just one or two ships. just think about it for a while.