the market to be viable? have u seen the market lately? if u think the market is fine now or with the mineral prices skyrocketing i duno what to tell you
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that just means its working.
CCP, If you’re whole idea behind these changes are to encourage PVP in high sec (or other area in general) you are extremely off the mark.
You wanna know what would increase the PVP all around ?
Disable PVP and WARDEC from High Sec. make it a NEWBRO FRIENDLY AREA 0.5++ = NO PVP , NO GANK , NO WAR.
PvP , Gank , War will shift towards WH , Low Sec , Pochven, Null Sec instead.
Have you seen the curent status of the game right now in those area ? Especially Null Sec ? it’s super dead no one dares to do PvP there as for one there’s no one there besides alpha clones sitting in station for “Intel gathering”. The Focus needs to shift from HIGH SEC being the prime target for PvP to other areas instead , then null sec will see some activity , you’re on the right track with Noise Filament good job on that , if only it worked as intended instead of using a Noise filament to seek out “high amount of activity recently” and finding out that it’s just 1 guy that likes to dock / undock.
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Please make another thread for that suggestion where we can discuss this.
I wouldn’t want to derail this thread.
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It’s somewhat related to this , as the whole nerf is related with the PVP in mind, why lock an Orca on grid with CiC ?
Locking the Orca on grid for the industrial core means higher risk for the rewards.
Apparently CCP thought the rewards for the Orca were to big for the risk and I agree.
Additionally mining and boosting in an Orca now requires fuel, which means the solo income of a mining Orca goes down even without severely reducing mining yield. A smart solution, I think, as people have noticed for a long time that the solo mining capacities of the Orca were too high.
I have seen many suggestions on how to fix that problem, but fuel is possibly the best. It doesn’t touch the mining yield of an Orca that is boosting his fleet, yet it still reduces the payout for solo Orca mining, hopefully to the point that low-effort miners feel encouraged to use barges instead.
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2bil sink is too big of a reward vs a risk ? just to be clear we are talking about an Orca here that mine as much as an unbuffed Skiff and not a Rorqual that mines the equivalent of 7 Orcas right ?
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Thank you, sir. I find the m3/sec far more relevant than any other number. At present I pull 13.2 m3/sec per strip miner II + t2 crystal on a covetor (or 1592m3 per 121 seconds cycle time) unboosted, no implants.
You’re in brave living in Null Sec you’ve never touched an orca in your life Spare me your 2 cents on this one and go back to your Rorqual x28
Rorqual? In my current space? Do you think I have a death wish? 
But yes, I have touched Orcas. With my weapon systems mainly.
I can fly an Orca but generally use a Porpoise instead when I want to bring mining boosts.
point proven thanks for clarifying that you approve of this change because of PvP in mind.
Hunters don’t care about what little cap neut and tackle a procurer has, because they need to stop their ship to deploy the cyno anyways, and therefore the scrams and webs on tackleprocs have no effect, while the procs won’t live to see the moment they cap-neuted the hunter once the cyno’s up.
It’s gank fleet scout procurers that give me the shrugs, they have superior sensor width to any cruiser, 50% more ehp then a drake(!) without even needing to sacrifice a single mid slot to get that EHP, and can therefore just put a scram and three webs there. A tackle HIC doesn’t have a Web, or if it has, it has one (1) web. With tripple webs on the Proc (that can target lock it’s prey faster then a HIC or any other cruiser) there’s no such thing as burning back to the gate, you’re forced to wreck the Proc, which takes more then a minute with most ships. Lots of things can happen in a minute.
5 Hobgoblins don’t do a thing. You use Sentry Drones.
But even if you fail to grab a dessie, half a dozen fit dessies are 60~90M isk, while a proc is 40~50M, so you’re isk possitive.
For that to make any sense, it would need to outperform a Rorqual considerably at crabbing, or otherwise you just crab with a second Rorqual as Rorqual fleets can Spider tank. But if it does outperform the Rorqual considerably, then the Rorqual’s Compression module won’t be able to keep up … “just create another 3 Rorqual alts that only compress for each new capital miner alt” comes in mind
The second problem would be the lack of rocks to put it on. Even in enormous anoms, a few barges can already scoop anything of value within 15 minutes, and then the bistot and arkonor is removed with type c scripts.
The only possible use case would be to put the capital on a moon belt, but that would only result in the already-rich members of the blue donut of contentless-ness to become even richer, as every miner would need to show off his new ship at the next fleet, while the alliances that aren’t members of the blue donut simply would disallow the usage of the new mining capitals, just as most are disallowing the usage of rorquals already.
It’s meant for Reactor Controls and Power Diagnostics, in order to enable you to fit fancier mid slot shield upgrades. Additionally, you can also put a Shield Power Relay in there to get some additional passive restore. Or Mining Laser Upgrades, although, obviously, that isn’t what you put on a Proc.
Assuming they had any effect, all the ganker had to do was to bring a 600k isk Griffin with meta modules and use that to initiate the attack from 60~80km off, the drones would aggress on it, you wouldn’t be able to tell them to attack anything else, and by the time your slowish drones catch the griffin CONCORD’s already there and clapped it, even in 0.5 sec, so the drones were completely useless as they just take another age to return to you.
In -1.0 sec, I had tripple battleship spawns fire at my proc, that was skilled to barges lvl1 and had no tank mods fit, while it was webbed and target painted by the elite frigate spawn and they barely got it to 60%
k-space rats don’t break Procs. I’ve seen people soloing highsec escallations with procurers, I assume because it’s the easiest afk-droneboat to get in (fBarge 50% drone bonuses are a role bonus, while the Vexor has a 10% bonus per level of the gallente cruiser skill, so you need cruiser 5 for a Vexor to have a Proc’s drone bonus, and even then it’s less tanky then a Proc)
Aww I wished I still had those around in my null region. All the cruisers I have here are just unarmed and untanked lucky-or-nothing ESS loot boats that will filament out if someone comes into local. Gankers here come with Hecate only, and launching rapid lights at those feels like bullying the weak, while fighting them in frigates also feels like bullying the weak.
Then just jump into the Praxis you got as a login reward and thereby completely bypassing the manufacture chain, clap smart bombs on it, drop the Praxis into a lvl3 anom in lowsec, since those are full of rats that will orbit you in smartbomb range, and cleanout the anomaly in a minute.
Will give you 0.001 security per 5 minutes, because the security gain is derived from the highest bounty paid to you by CONCORD within these 5 minutes, rather then the number of rats or bounties. Clap 1 battleship NPC and you get an order of magnitude more security bonus that you’d get for clearing the whole frigate anomaly, even if you clap nothing but that one battleship.
That’s why you put your -10.0 security alts into deploy-and-forget vexors/gilas/ishtars and have them afk rat in null for a few hours if you want to repair standings.
Or maybe it isn’t a problem to begin with. Most of the expensive killmail suicide ganks are done with t2 fit battlecruisers supported by bombers, both of which require omega accounts.
CODE can plex any number of accounts they need to maintain their “law and order” in highsec anyway, because miners are permanently paying them mining permits.
And if you stay on the incident site where CODE brought “justice” to a rogue miner, it’s all full with other miners stealing the loot left behind by CODE or the rogue miner, which causes the miners to become suspects, just to be tackled by CODE’s ship-scanning eyes alt and then “kindly offered” to ransom their barge/whale/freighter, because the miners are so greedy they start looting with those ships. And because they lack even the slightiest bit of honour, they pay the ransom and therewith and therewith each of them funds half the battlecruiser fleet CODE just sacrificed, not rarely resulting in CODE collecting so much ransom they made money on the attack (and they have the loot because they force the looters to return it)
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Sorry to disappoint you, I have the best interests of the game in mind, not just the best interests of the miner.
Balance requires to look beyond 'better is higher yield, more safety and less effort’.
Yes, the Orca changes intentionally reduce yield and decrease safety for the Orca pilot. Which is good for the game as a whole.
And is especially good for current Barge and Exhumer pilots, as the price of their ore may finally go up when hordes of AFK Orcas stop mining. Miners might finally get paid for their time!
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Oh don’t get me wrong , i am very mad about the Changes done to asteroids belt and my precious Orca which i bought in 2011.
But PvP in High Sec always felt wrong the amount of scam there is idk it just doesn’t have it’s place , you start the game and people are already trying to scam you or kill you off for luls and giggles.
this happened today a streamer who started a week ago (yes she got gifted that ship by her friend not the point) she was chilling doing missions , one dude from her chat sends her a fleet invite she accepts she finishes her mission, he fleets warp her in a spot where his mates was waiting in catalyst and there’s the killmail.
With the warm greeting of "Welcome to EvE 
" that’s not fun, what if she didnt get a hand out and farmed that ship just to lose it like that ? Sometimes you guys forget how it is to be a newbro you’ve lived in the comfort of “GM SPAWN ME THIS SHIP!” or NullSec life with trillions of isks and quintillion of assets safety. My RL friend lost his Prophecy from NPC cause he wasn’t careful enough , losing 120mil worth of ship + module was enough for him to uninstall EvE and tell me everytime i say something related to EvE. "Fck EvE", from the Little amount of ISKS there is to make in High Sec a fcking 2 bil Orca shouldn’t be a “The reward is too great for the Risk”.
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Disabling PvP in highsec is a pretty terrible idea.
The root cause of lack of activity in low/null is not lack of activity, but the proliferation of capitals. More often than not, you can have capitals dropped on your subcap roam, thus no one goes into low/null without caps. But, in order to do that, you need to have a foot in low/null anyway.
It’s a big barrier to entry that was caused by the abundance of minerals. The scarcity release at the start of this year was meant to address that, causing all ships above the size of a battleship to balloon in price. That should have served to limit the number of capitals being deployed and any mineral reserves to start being depleted.
Fewer capitals = more small pvp.
This release also addresses that, to some degree. Since rorqs will no longer be the pinnacle of mining that they are, mining fleets will start being a large number of hulks + a rorq to boost & compress. Rorqs are tough to kill when they have a defence fleet, whereas a cruiser roam can drop in on a hulk fleet and take quite a few out.
So, more risk for low/null miners, and more incentive for roams to hit another alliance’s mining fleets. That should encourage PVP.
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So the very people who complain about AFK miners are ratting AFK ?
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It’s worse than that. A lot of them have retrospectively imbued their own recollections of newbie-ness with all the knowledge gained since…which is precisely what gives that smug air of ’ I wasn’t as stupid a newbie as you lot ’ you so often see here.
If your going to kill all compression updates, can you at least allow moon ore compression in refineries in this update? Come on i am sure the developers have that as a #define in the code already. Literally would take two seconds to change that.
Nah, come on, they’re not afk. Let’s call it … to have their droneboats clear out ratting anoms while they focus their attention on wielding the hammer of justice with their next 10 suicide ganking toons, while it takes 15 minutes for the previous 10 they played on to recovering from having been bullied by CONCORD.
So yeah, they’re afk ratting. And I also wouldn’t consider it unlikely that on yet other alts they are afk mining, too.
Not CODE though, they don’t care about -10.0 securities, and the toons they do care about security ratings, such as their ship scanning eyes that sit on stargates and scan haulers, don’t participate in suicide ganking.
It’s more the blue donut backwater null population that hasn’t seen real PVP for ages and goes to high to get killmails (rather then to get a fight), but then, after they collected some dozens, doesn’t like that they can’t autopilot safely in high any more because suspect watch kills them, CODE tackles and asks for ransom, and in excessive cases even the factional navy comes to clap their autopiloting toons, so they deploy-and-forget their toon in their backwater null where it won’t be ganked, which has the side effect of providing them with isk
Just like James 315, I was wiped out in Lowsec very soon after joining the game. My own fault.
Also like him, it spurred me to analyse what had happened and to sort out my understanding of the game.
There are always people whose first reaction to a loss is to complain, and then to go on complaining until the feeling dulls a little. Self-Adjustment is, for them, an unpalatable option.
And there are always those who, in a similar situation, will adopt curiosity and determination, feeding the will to overcome whatever trouble has come their way.
I was an ignorant, over-confident new player. I learned. I changed. It can be done.
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