From Extraction To Production: Update

Hi All, I posted some ideas on here probably about a week or so ago.

but while doing my day to day things i had an idea as a possible change to the waste mechanic.
the idea here is to keep the concept but to change the approach behind it and how its implemented

in essence it would be rock purity.

the idea being that instead of all veldspar (using veldspar as an exmaple here) rocks are the same and the mining that X amount = refining yield Y
that there are now slightly different variations in the mineral composition and amounts and instead of waste being produced from an aspect of mining there is simply a needless waste element which instead is produced during the refinement process (compressing in rorqual’s & orca’s will minimise waste production as the waste elements are removed as part of the compression)

this way you still implement the waste factor, but it is no longer a biproduct of mining and thus none of this silly you get more waste for using better equipment and removed the problem needing to be factored into mining ships or clone states entirely and instead allows mining to continue as normal [although some tweeks would be nice, mining with t2 lasers & t2 crystals should get you a higher yield for example] but the factor of waste is then down to purity or richness of the minerals, similar things have occoured in the real world, there are different grades of materials for example used in the manufacturing process of various things around the world.

in fact the oil industry is prime with this kind of example, how an area could be prospected for oil, but it not of sufficenct grade or amount.

what you could do is simply produce a new module for miners perhaps something called a “Soil beam” or something, which literally soils the minerals within the rocks of enemy territories this way you still factor in the new proposed type of game play, this also means miners don’t have to destroy whole asteroid belts, just the most mineral rich ones, surveying rocks and scouting for mineral rich / dense rocks then becomes a must for players and required fleets working together.

the down side to this would mean tweeking the spawn mechanics for rocks in all regions of space, each belt would spawn X amount of rocks and each rock would have a different variable amount of minerals within them.

proposed waste product: carbon
because why not.

–EDIT–
additional a thought on the refining process as it currently stands, there is usually a percentage yield given in game at the moment, this represents how much you’ll get out of the amount presented, however no waste is given, I think implementing something like this would mean that carbon would be created in correct proportion to the reprocessing values given.

the richer the mineral density the higher the yield and lower the waste.
rocks which have less mineral density will ultimately have more impurities.

I didn’t change , i didn’t learn , i am still very ignorant. I went there thinking eh what the heck is it still as bad as i remember it being 10 years ago ? the alternative is to do 50 jumps in high sec… That’s a pricey 50 jumps i should of taken.

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if I did the math right a max yield with 5% implant hulk with max boosts using ore strips is something like 417k per hour m3

Rorqual or Orca or Porpoise boost?

rorq boosts with a mindlink

I’m curious, what is the definition of AFK mining? How long are you allowed to drink a beer before you are considered AFK?
Last I used a Rorqual mining drones don’t automatically switch to a new target once a rock is depleted.
So I am presuming “AFK” means you’re not actively targeting a new rock for 3 to 5 minutes at a time.
I know from experience, get up to go to the loo and you’ll likely return to see your drones sitting idle [not mining]

Gerard will speak for himself, but I have the following:
If you want to go AFK, dock-up, or seek safety using the bookmarks you’ve already prepared.

I don’t know if you’re indicating that you imbibe at your keyboard, but there are dangers associated with that. Take care!

Good answer. Pity it in no way addresses the context of my post.

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An orca can go untouched for over an hour and still be mining.

That’s not even on a moon rock. That’s rocks from hi-sec belts.

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i generally agree that AFK is very hard to pull off in high sec in an Orca. The rock sizes are so small that if you asign 1 drone to 5 different rocks on a good day you can maybe get 10-15 minutes before having to tell a drone to hit the next rock. On a bad day it can be less than 5 minutes on the regular.

Obviously different if we are talking ice or moons or whatever. On standard belts you cant be AFK for any meaningful amount of time without having idel drones.

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I agree, that’s the more constructive attitude… BUT. those who don’t think like you or are just trying to chill on a new space game while not at work or family and are blown up to pieces ( ok so far) and then is griefed over and over, guess what he will do? Yep find another game. Would not be wiser to ccp to attend to both public and by that increase ppl who actually stay at the game more than few weeks? Also what thrust a game will pass on new players if on the rules are written " you can be scamed and that’s legal( and even encouraged)?

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I see what you mean - apologies.

Not very hard at all.

It’s not going to be particularly hard for any larger mining ships to out perform a Rorqual with the current proposed changes, with it’s yield getting nerfed and everything else ultimately getting buffed, even the Hulk looks like its going to out perform the Rorqual under ideal conditions, including getting Roqual boosts.
I do believe the proposed concept of compression taking ages and being really slow is already getting reconsidered, IF… compression is at a state where an orca and Rorqual is capable of compressing the ore intake of fleets they are designed to support, then that would be a major boon for introducing larger mining ships who can outmine the nerfed Rorquals, while the Rorquals can actually compress the amount of ore thats incoming.

if you think a high sec rock in a belt is going to take 35mins for one drone to mine then we live in different realities. Maybe in a porpoise with literally no drone skills.

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Listen. It’s all a matter of perspective, From your POV i may look afk, you might think damn he’s been mining that one asteroid with his one drone for over an hour now , he’s afk for sure. Why is my yield just not good enough that it takes me this long to mine an asteroid ? If i was in a rorqual with excavator drone 2 pass and no more asteroid , would you be considering me afk then ? Not my fault if the yield of the mining drone was so low. Now it’s going to be even lower! and they boosted the quantity of ores available in the asteroids! it’s over we’re all doomed.

From my POV, send my 5 drones , watch a stream on my 2nd monitor while glancing at my orca from time to time , then i noticed an asteroid just pop , check local it’s all good, i lock a new asteroid , send my drone to it , rescan. what you may perceive as taking hours for me it’s like 15 mins tops.

Thanks for your response, Safira. I get that not everyone is like me, and so will feel differently.

I also think that there is no right to have your personal characteristics taken into account by game designers. They may do so; they don’t have to do so.

From what I know of it, The Sims is not a game I would play, for it doesn’t permit me to strike other players over the head, or to scam them. Should I install the game, play it, and try to convince the designers that they should incorporate my wishes into the next patch?

There’s a lot of talk on these forums about declining numbers of players. No player has access to the figures or, more importantly, the reasons why players leave. It’s pointless to speculate even, let alone to assert confidently that scamming, etc., are the driving factors.

There are other good games out there; I play two or three of them myself!

Oh that is so not true, I made a new sim boy with a nice waifu we got married the wedding was fantastic , we got a child together i got to name my child was really sweet… I then noticed something very strange… my child was using my neighbor Last name… every night from that point onward my wife was sleeping at my neighbor’s house… while i took care of the kid…

That was the last time i played The Sims. EvE scam is not even close to that kind of scam , i got scared forever from that one moment.

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You probably know this, but for anyone else looking at this KM, there is no reason to ever die in a pod in hi sec or low sec. There are no bubbles in low sec, and nothing that can lock you. The only thing that can kill you are smart bombs, which are present in very, very few systems. If you have a string of hi sec jumps, with one low sec in the middle, that’s where the smart bombs will be.

When you jump into that system, don’t warp to the gate, warp to a moon or belt ( not the sun) that is off line between the gates, then warp to your out gate. The different angle will cause you to miss the smartbomb camp.

I think for barges things shuld be like

Tank
Procurer >>> Retriever > Covetor

Because Procurer is supposed to be super tanky.

Ore Capacity
Retriever >>> Procurer > Covetor

Because Retrivers should be have giant ore holds.

Yield
Covetor >>> Retriver > Procurer

Because Covetors are supposed to be paper thin but have good yield.

So I’m opposed to adding a low to the Procurer since that means they can get the same yield as a Retriver.

I’m opposed to removing the Procuer’s tank because that’s supposed to be it’s role.

I’m fine with barges as they are right now. Well maybe the BCs could be a bit cheaper. I do wish the ORE strip miner was better, and I wish they’d just make it mine as fast as 3.1 Tech IIs instead of “oh look we’re adding waste and ORE doesn’t do that”

Adding a mid to the Retriver… if that’s all they’re doing I guess that’s OK.

If they absolutely insist on giving the Covetor another mid and removing mids form the Procurer, I’d suggest giving Covetor and Retriver a 2nd Mid, removing the 4th from the Procurer but not giving it a low. Instead increase hull HP so that a Procurer with a Damage Control II and reinforced bulkhead in low and 3 Transeverse Bulkheads in Rigs with 4 shield tanking modules in mids pre-patch and one post-patch (minus one mid module) have the same EHP. So it keeps the tank, but any Procurer using a point now only has 2 tanking mids left. And then have “-70% PG requirement for afterburners” on all barges.