From Extraction To Production: Update

yeah i thought of that after the incident , but then again if they sit on the gate and the range of the smart bomb is 7.5km , shouldnt that still hit me no matter from which angle i come in?

You lost your cognitive grip on the discussion. Or, as some might say, over your head.

It is a good point, and i agree, but I’m more pointing about the griefing part, and their lack of concern about it on new players. Also the lack of attitude from ccp against that .

1 Like

…Which is why I would welcome your further input, Hans.

Give it to me in bitesize chunks so that we can all drink at the fountain of your undoubted wisdom.

I’m waiting…

An AFK, that’s someone in the food chain even I can take out.

We both got our say. You obviously are not satisfied and if I were you, I might feel the same. Your original points in my opinion were farcical ; I treated them that way and so did others. Now you want to reset the table and argue some more. That time has past, I’m on to other things.

Happy Thanksgiving.

With the new crystals, which one is used for high-sec moons, low and null?

Thank you. I wish you the same!

High sec moons use ubiquitous moon ore crystals, the others will depend on the exact rock and each moon makes multiple ores so you’ll see ubiquitous moon ore crystals, common moon ore crystals, rare moon ore crystals, and… pretty much the same as it is now.

We obviously do. The math and screen shots were done in the thread i linked.

Maybe you think it isn’t 30 odd minutes but your perception of time is affected because you are doing other things.

I’m sorry, but hard no.

CCP:

  • noob with T1 gear has a gross yield (subtracted from the rock) of 200 units/cycle
  • vet with T2 gear has a gross yield (subtracted from the rock) of 134 units/cycle

Me:

  • noob with T1 gear has a gross yield (s. f. t. r.) of 100 units/cycle
  • vet with T2 gear has a gross yield (s. f. t. r.) of 100 units/cycle

So, in the CCP take, the noob burns through almost twice as much ore as the vet does, in the same amount of time. It doesn’t matter if we’re talking about valuable ore or whatever - if noob and vet compete against the same resource, in the CCP take the noob burns through the rock faster than the vet does.

I can’t find the original description in the initial “From Extraction to Production” post (I can see it was modified 4 times, so I guess it was truncated when this thread got published).

Time is finite for both noob and vet.
If in the same amount of time a noob burns twice the ore a vet does from the rock itself, the 2 are competing and the noob is ruining it for both of them.

If the waste would be computed from the hold, things would be reasonable.

Why?

I’m going back to the “The mining gear should act precisely like anti-asteroid weaponry”.
The weapons and ammo we play with don’t guarantee that the damage indicated is applied at that nominal level. They mention the gross damage, before resistances and tracking and everything else.

Why would the mining gear show us the net yield? They shouldn’t. They should say how much ore they can process per cycle. How much of that ore you keep should be the equivalent of applied damage.
So… scour through 100 units of ore, but your gear is too crude and you only get 50% of it. Use better gear and get more experience with the quirks of your messed up hardware or know not to burn the rock, but smash it first and you go from 50% to 84% etc.

Is it clear now? We’re talking about net drain from the asteroid. At double the total ore amount, the noob gets just as much ore as they do now, in X cycles.
The vets will be denied access to that extra 100% ore amount in the belts/moon chunks if a noob mines next to them, with the waste mechanic applied as per the CCP suggestion.
In my suggestion, the vets would get about the same amount of ore as now in X cycles, but there would still be ore left in the area even if a noob mines there. So, instead of 2x ore for the vet, it’s 1.3x perhaps (assuming faction gear etc.).

Also, @CSM : CCP should add a module that sucks in all that asteroid mist and yields some amount of ore. Lower than a mining module, but friendly. Something like a gas aspirator, but for fine rock dust.

Nope. I think you have me confused with someone who doesnt pay attention.

If i take the orca out on a good day the first drone needs recyling when i have around 18-20k m3 in my hold. on a bad day i dont get to 10km3 in my hold before the first drone needs reassigned. so thats what between 3 and 4k per rock which is fairly common for high sec asteroid size.

So if thats suppossed to take me 35minutes. each drone is pull 2m3 per second? well i mine at double that speed with max skills and augmented mining drones.

your example was a 7k rock. my drones mine at just over 25m3 per second (all 5 together) so each drone pulling 5m3 per second. thats 23 minutes plus a little travel time. But i move my orca right next to the rocks im mining so that negligable.

And a 7k rock is an anomaly at the moment.

And then we have the staggering effect. its not like you are always sending 5 drones to 5 different rocks of the same size. the rocks are different sizes and therefore finish at different times. so after the first cycle which might give you a nice 25 minutes where you dont have to do anything. but then each drone ends up on its own pattern starting a new rock after the last finishes.

drone 1 finishes…….re start on new rock……….2mins later drone 2 finishes…………4 minutes later drone 3 finishes……………6 minutes later drone 4 finishes……………30seconds later drone 5 finishes…….3 minutes later drone 2 finishes…….30 seconds later drone 1 finishes……….5 minutes later drone 3 finishes…………and so on.

if you think you are getting 35 minutes anywhere within that random pattern you are crazy. While one rock may take that long if you are lucky not every rock is and the patterns are depending by the smaller rocks.

How would there be a difference between type A (high efficiency, lower yield) and type B (lower efficiency, higher yield) in your example?

You seem fixated on everyone mining a fixed amount of ore from an asteroid, which makes that choice between high yield versus high efficiency impossible, because higher efficiency is directly tied to higher yield, instead of decoupled like in CCP’s idea.

And if you let loose the fixed amount extracted from the asteroid per time, your idea is the same as CCP’s idea, except in different words.

Literally a screenshot…

image

As i said, you’re guestimating how long it takes you to pop a rock. But your perception of time is not accurate.

2 Likes

I just went on the test server and the role bonusses you said got removed are still there? If they remove those bonusses, mining is in a world of pain

edit: probably because it is not on the test server yet and they sneaked in that little change… F U C K

Is it already known if and when the new bp’s will be released?

id kill for rocks like that. But it doesnt really change the fact that the 35minutes is misnomer.

5 drones. five different drone cycles. how do make a combination that allwos you to consistently AFK for 30minutes. even just 2 drones to make the math simple.

drone 1 mines the big veldspar rock at 11 835 and drone 2 mines the one thats 9985. drone 2 finishes first and moves onto the 11380 rock. well that leaves drone 1 with an effective rock size of 1850 before it needs to be reassigned. So right away the staggering of 2 drones means afk potential is reduced down. factor in another 3 and you get to a cycle where you are lucky to get 10 minutes……even 5 between assisgning a drone to a rock.

Even if i accept you 35minute for one drone…………the 35minutes doesnt exist when between starting and stopping potentially 4 other drones need to be reassigned.

@CCP_Psych please do not remove the role bonus to foreman bursts. I’d rather even lose mining drones all together over losing that role bonus. It is also very sneaky to introduce that change in this way.

1 Like

You’re surely aware you seem fixated on my presumably fixated idea, yes?

Mine 200 units of ore. Noob gets maybe 70. With proper crystals, they get to 100. So we’re at that 50% waste CCP suggested. Similar for the vet, from say 110 to 160 and we’re back at 80-84%.

Adjust the base amounts, then the crystals for mining would more or less act like energy weapon crystals, adjusting personal performance/waste (thus, the net yield).

I’m not fixated on something. Should vets get more ore in the same amount of time as a noob would get? ABSOLUTELY - that’s why we invest in skilling and in better gear.
Should noobs burn through more ore than a vet in the same amount of time? Absolutely not!, it’s senseless if they did.

As such, go with the waste as a concept, but make it not from the asteroid, make it from the ore hold. Or, parallel to reality, from the mining module to the ore, not from the asteroid to the mining module.

Otherwise I assume you accept the idea that me, in a Merlin, should be able to dish out a higher base damage per cycle as compared to you (you flying a Worm), when fighting the same NPC. Because it’d actually show to me like I’m dealing 100 damage, when it’s taking 200 health points from the NPC. (I’m not too fond of this parallel, but the absurdity of it should be striking enough to understand why I’m being vehement about this)