From Extraction To Production: Update

EVE Information Portal Announcements
1485

this is terrible. I dont really care about the minerals being gone from r4, the goo is worth enough now that its decent to mine it. I actually kind of like it being gone so that abc will be worth a little more now,

But if you pay tax or rent on R4, you are going to have to deal with moving large volumes of P1 around to make the tax and in the case of zeolites, most of the value is going to be in the oxygen and not the goo. In HS that is probably fine, in some parts of LS and null its going to be a pain to move.

I normally dont like to complain about problems that are socially constructed by players, but I think the issue of trying to solve the removal of minerals from R4 isn’t that great a problem that even needs to be solved, and it has major PITA implications and also possible market implications for those four PI products and their derrivatives. Wasn’t the whole point of adding these to battleships and cap parts to help their price out? The prices have improved drastically and now you want to increase the supply again?

1486

when are you starting? I am joining in

1 Like
1487

I’ve come out of my ‘I dont’ post here’ hovel to ask:

What the actual F***k?

PLANETARY interaction products should not be available from MOON mining.
but logic never seems to go over well with the “Scarcity” team, as has been proven over the past two years…

I just want to get this straight: You guys decided to ‘decouple’ the cost of capitals from subcapitals… okay, I can get on with that; capitals were too cheap, and the only way (previously) to make them more expensive was to increase the price of frigs/cruisers/etc. so you added a new component to capitals that is derived from PI.
Okay, I’m with you so far. not a terrible idea. (Ignoring the fact that you aren’t the ones who came up with it, as there were players who suggested the idea long before it launched) but what do you chose? PI mats, and not only PI, but P1s.
These were never designed to be moved offworld; they were designed to be converted into P2s as their own “form” of compression, and it shows by the fact that they require a full, expanded freighter -just- to move that ONE component.

We all tell you you’re idiots, start to protest, and make so much noise that the gaming media takes notice. you’re publicly shamed, but you STILL can’t put two and two together to recognize that you’re wrong, so you double down, and make THIS change?

How about this: if you want capitals to be produced from things you mine from an R4 moon, WHY DON’T YOU CHANGE THE PI IN THE NEW CAPITAL BUILD REQUIREMENTS DIRECTLY TO R4 MATERIALS???
Pros:

  • You keep the decoupling of capitals from T1 production
  • You can control how much of this product exists and is available for mining.
  • You don’t screw with the materials that are already supposed to be ‘unique’ to implant and upwell production
  • You don’t create a brand new butterfly effect in a previously (mostly) untouched and unrelated part of industry
  • Especially combined with compression, Capital building materials can actually be moved around the galaxy (or mined locally) to create more dynamic markets.
  • It no longer takes SEVERAL JUMP FREIGHTERS to move the materials needed for capital construction

Cons:

  • you slightly increase the price of T2 ships in the process?? (shouldn’t this be a pro?)
  • You don’t get to continue telling everyone your farts don’t stink, and have to face the fact that some of your already implemented changes are horse dung?
  • ???

Also: while I’m here and complaining, can we just take a moment to notice that ALSO “unmodified” (yeah, postponed, whatever) in the current iteration of this patch of nigh-unequaled smooth-brain showcasing, is a move from a WHOLE bunch of ore specific refining skills (good! one good thing in here!) to an equal number of overly complicated skills required to operate type specific compression modules? If you have the gray matter to actually RECOGNIZE the fact that an individual skill for each and every individual type of refining is, and always was a BAD plan, why in Bob’s name would you EVER ADD AN EQUAL NUMBER OF TEDIOUS, UNNECESSARY AND SPECIALIZED SKILLS in the exact same patch proposal?

Overcomplicating things IS NOT compelling gameplay.
Tedium IS NOT compelling gameplay.
BALANCE does NOT require tedium or overcomplication. Yes, time is a metric of balance. but the only “good” way to add ‘time’ to something NEEDS to include MORE FUN.

Repeat after me:
This is NOT a mobile game.
This is a SUBSCRIPTION game.
Our players ALREADY PAY for their ads to be removed, and their time to be meaningful.
We DO NOT need to waste our players time to get them to spend more money.

16 Likes
1488

The first iteration of these changes were damaging to existing playstyles.

This change utterly destroys an entire facet of industry. Trig and EDENCOM production were insulated from the ravages of big miners. By adding PI to R4 moons, the orcas produce more P1 than actual PI ever could, and so a sliver, insulated market that was able to hide and be successful (much like T3), dies and homogenizes the game.

Wide as the ocean, shallow as a puddle. Just drill a rock.

Incompetent. You put those restrictions in yourselves to build microindustries. This was the only one that worked. The pirate faction ships are still sitting around being totally unbuildable.

What was scarcity for if you do this?

6 Likes
1489

you assume the code is good. It may not be. code always entropies over time and that code is potentially extremely old.

compression is also a fairly overpowered mechanic in its current form. It costs nothing to use and makes minerals vastly more portable and less expensive to move. at least at one point you had to feed a compression array and let it run for a while, now its instantly and makes everything in your hold more valuable

1490

The way you’re supposed to get datacores was by doing R&D.
Guess what? If you buy a 1M isk Heron and run around and actually play eve instead of being docked and watching netflix, you’ll end up having more datacores after an hour of playing then R&D would provide you in a month.

The way you’re supposed to get Salvage was by salvaging ship wrecks.
But if you buy a Heron worth 1M isk, and run around in relic sites and actually play eve, you end up making more salvage, especially high end one, then you’d get in days of afk ishtaring.

1491

Well, so long and thanks for all the fish. My group of 30-50 will fall apart, up to 100 omegas that were unsubbed when this patch was first proposed will not be resubbing.

7 Likes
1492

The way you are supposed to get datacores is by farming FW LP. R&D points are just a gimmick these days, an abandoned relic of the past and decidedly not how you are supposed to get datacores.

REDNES

1493

I’m a bloody explorer main, ya ad hominem machine.

Besides, it’s not even equivalent. That’s AFK vs active.
This is AFK vs AFK orcas.

2 Likes
1494

C-type crystal do just that

1495

Ad hominem is forum currency these days. Probably the only reason to mention it. XD
I for one love the new changes, not for the usual reasons, but more due to Schadenfreude. I’mma be honest, the forums burned me pretty hard on…a lot, but Aquinas is certainly valid, as is Plato’s Scala Amoris and Cave Allegory. In other words, the situation will resolve itself in the best way possible. CCP is doing the community some good here, but it’ll be awhile before anyone realizes as much.

1496

Nerfs with in nerfs, man CCP at this point wants eve to end they are fast tracking it’s death.

3 Likes
1497

Ok, so, I’m not going to object to these changes on any mechanical basis. I am, however, going to ask you guys to please consider this from a lore perspective.

R4s. Some of the most common moons in the New Eden Cluster. More than 25% of them (because there are a lot of multiple-R4 moons) have Coesite. So they’ll have bacteria.

They won’t have water (unless it’s a Coesite/Sylvite moon), or protein (unless it’s a Bitumen/Coesite moon) but they’ll have functioning cellular organisms made of proteins, which contain water in the cells. So this is bacteria that manages to exist and reproduce in an environment with no food source, and where it should, y’know, explode due to the lack of water pressure outside the cell membrane.

It then get blasted into space as part of a huge chunk of rock by a gigantic laser. Then the rock explodes. Then the rock gets cut up by lasers, which, you know, are hot. Then it all gets reprocessed.

And the bacteria survives to remain viable ‘bacteria’ that can be used in predictable industrial applications.

And despite this magical super-life being all over the moons of New Eden… there are no actual aliens in EVE.

8 Likes
1498

One - this is ridiculous for all the reasons listed above.

Two - when CCP cannot even get right the names of the stuff it has in its own game, why should we believe for one second that the devs have got ANY CLUE WHATSOEVER?

It is Sylvite, for heaven’s sake. Sylvite. Not “Sylvatite”…

Pathetic beyond belief. Oh, and don’t anyone accuse me of “English might not be their first language”, as we are here discussing a Proper Noun, not some odd idiom.

9 Likes
1499

…what?

Why.

Why would you do any of this?

1 Like
1500

… who thought this was a good choice? best case scenario it gives a small boost back to these ores but tanks the PI mats that are now being forced into them. FFS if you were really worried just add some ice to the moons it would be far more predictable at the very least and feel a lot less forced.

3 Likes
1501

So true to life CCP Shill got it. lol

1 Like
1502

Wait. How can a planet only have raw planetary materials but a moon has processed materials? Are moons basic factories? Are we shooting factories to pieces?

5 Likes
1503

The same way you can reprocess ice and get H3O, but not the far more common H2O.

1504

remove HS moon goo from all LS and NS moon ore - fully agree with this one.
The whole point of the changes that started were supposed to put certain materials in certain space. Why do LS and NS still get HS goo then? Just removal of that would bump up the price of HS goo a tiny bit, maybe pushing it towards being viable to keep it being mined.

1 Like