Thanks @CCP_Psych for the note publication, and thanks to CCP for working with the CSM to improve from the first iteration.
I feel like this is a definite improvement from where we were before.
Some feedback:
The best suggestion I’ve heard is splitting the Rorqual into two ships, similar to the carrier and FAX split in the past. I don’t think we need to wait on that split to proceed forward with the plan here, but that seems to solve the rorqual identity crisis. It might then also make sense to split certain things (like PANIC) on to one version of the ship but not the other.
Doubling of ore still leaves w-space out in the cold. Almost all valuable ore disappeared from w-space in the Oct 2020 update and it remains terrible, even in shattered holes which were supposed to have good mining. It’d be great to see w-space ore fixed.
I feel like the T1 = 0 waste thing is a bit on the confusing side. It seems like it’d be worth considering adding another T2 option to the strip miner: a T2 Precision Strip miner (name irrelevant), that also has 0 base waste and can accept crystals but mines less than the other T2/faction mining module.
Looking forward to the winter update next week. Thanks to CSM and CCP people involved in improving the originally announced Extraction to Production notes into this version
@CCP_Psych the ice mining drone nerf is way TOO MUCH!!
If you max fit your Orca, with perfect Orca skills and perfect ice mining drones skills.
Live server
50.48 seconds using tech II ice harvester with no waste
Sisi with indy core active
114.41 second using tech II ice harvester with 100% waste
This is not acceptable. a 30% nerf would only add 15 more seconds. You guys hit it with a 127.25% nerf!! If an Orca is going to run through heavy water like water, it better be able to mine the heck out of ice to help cover some of the cost!
T1: No waste, low yield, it’s there newbs and pvpers who wanna help the team effort.
T2 A: No waste, better yield, general miners tool.
T2 B: Some waste, faster, tool for ninja miners (1% of 1% of miners), or general miners grabbing whatever they can from rocks which are about to expire.
T2 C: Lotsa waste, barely any yield, general miners who need to delete unwanted rocks, or trolls.
How it is:
T1: No waste (at least that point got across), low yield.
T2 A: Literally useless, too much waste to use over T1, too low yield to use over T2 B.
T2 B: The rock deleters. Guess they are the way to go when manhours is your limitation, but let’s be bloody honest, even with double rocks, availability of rocks worth mining will be a much bigger limitation than manhours, thus making those a corner case of ninja mining or hitting rocks that are about to expire, and not much else.
T2 C: Not actually deleting rocks significantly faster than T2 B, while producing almost no yield, thus also useless. Need a buff to waste for their intended purpose.
YEP , it can’t even sustain itself , Orca pilot will have to buy it’s water, or use a barge to mine the water for the orca. It’s so dumb.
Orca will have no role after this. Until compression comes out and that will be the sole purpose of the Orca then , compressing. 2Bil ship made worthless can’t even compress moon stuff
@CCP_Psych
While I don’t agree with all of these updates either, I very much appreciate that you guys seem to be listening and responding to player concerns.
I do like the idea of splitting the Rorqual into two ships with non-overlapping roles. Another idea I’ve seen thrown around that I like is an upgrade from an exhumer that is battlecruiser/battleship sized.
I don’t hate the idea of waste, but efficiency seems more “friendly” to me.
Thanks again for listening and adjusting based on feedback.
Removing waste from the T1 modules is a step in the right direction, but why have waste at all?
The idea of the modules being balanced by ore/time was already fine. So 80 Ventures (I’m making numbers up here, I didn’t calculate this it’s the decreasing quantity of players with better ships that matter) with T1 lasers might take as much time to clear a few rocks as 3 Barges Orca Booster and that in turn might take the same amount of time as a Rorqual. Or a single Venture can clear it out muuuuuch slower than Orca boosted barges (because of all the time wasted moving back to drop off the ore). So cheaper ships = more people need, less ore, or more time spent and better ships = less people needed to get the ore, more ore for the same manpower, less time spent clearing the same belt/moon, or all of the above. So why even have waste at all?
Ok the Rorqual was a bit too good with what it did (I don’t have one, but I can tell where ore sloshing around the market comes from when people brag about it), but this can be altered by changing drone speed, drone bonuses or something instead of waste. There was enough room in the mechanics that you only needed to change some numbers and not throw all the miners into chaos by introducing a new mechanic.
The funny thing is that I actually liked some ideas of the patch, but I’d rather have the whole thing scrapped than had it implemented the way it was suggested last week. Barge gas mining is totally awesome. But if you’re going to take the bonus away from the Venture, you’re going to either need to make barges align faster (like putting on some inertial stabilizers make them align in 5 seconds), cut the stuff into making the barges by 70% (so they can be a bit more replaceable), or make them a bit tankier. Or just give us barge buffers while not changing the existing ships.
And yay for not nerfing R4? I think you’re going to decide you were right the first time and do it anyways.
Having T1s waste ore and putting raw recruits away from the moons was my main complaint, so I guess these new patch suggestions aren’t nearly as egregious. I don’t like waste on philosophical grounds since I believe regulating the yield/cycle (or drone speed) should be sufficient to put the
I get the Rorqual is too good at mining, but you don’t need to put in “waste” or nerf Orcas just because one ship is too good.
I think think it’ was stupid to remove minerals from any moon goo, let alone now removing it from R4s. Just doesn’t make any logical sense. I can understand the removal of base ores from moons, but moon material itself should still contain some amount of base minerals.
Ahhh yes it was. I have an Orca I built for roughly 300 mil isk, years ago. It did appreciate in value a bit but when the Orca got the ability to mine with drones the price went up by over 2 billion isk. That was well before the industry changes.
I don’t see why moon ores can’t contain the normal ores that spawn in the system. But if they’re not going to bring it back, at least not nerfing R4s would be nice.
Yeah. As a Skiff pilot I gotta agree that slower and weaker isn’t exactly a buff. My personal preference would be the above. I like my zippy Skiff a great deal and will gladly give up some strength to keep my speed and agility.
@CCP_Psych I’m disappointed that the expedition frigs are not retaining the probe strength bonuses. Like you, I also want to see the further expansion and development of ninja mining and industrial explo. It’s a really cool playstyle, and has massive potential to liven up an area of the game that can be a little dull.
But this is why I’m a little confused…it would seem to run counter to your stated ambition. It’s a bonus that doesn’t really upset that mining meta either, as it doesn’t touch on yield or anything like that. I think it’s necessary that they should keep these bonuses, and for the Prospect to receive an extra high slot (not hardpoint) to accomodate a launcher.
It’s also disappointing that the Endurance loses covops, as again it furthers your ambitions for ninja mining without upsetting the mining meta.
To be honest, I would rather see normal “ores” in asteroid belts just always available, as that is more useful for people who don’t have access to or own moons i.e. newbies building T1 hulls. Moon goo is mostly used for T2 ships, which is sort of the step up from T1 hulls, which requires you to up your investment to get into owning or working with other groups to mine moons. That said, removing ALL basic minerals from goo is counter productive. I would say it should be balanced to be somewhat less productive than belt mining but still provide something.
But who am I? Nobody that matters enough for CCP to care…
