Lots of complaining in the official thread.
Looks like its gonna be a crappy update.
This!
Selling my Orca in 3,2,1…
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All the mining ships are currently being changed, why would you need a new mining ship?
I’d like CCP to balance all the existing ships as they do now, rather than them adding more ships while ignoring the old.
You do get higher yield at higher skills - have you seen the ship bonuses and higher tier modules and crystals?
No it should not. Compression always was too easy and without downsides. Now that we can compress all the resources it’s good that we finally see a tiny drawback for compression, but it most of the cases compression will still be worth it.
I have no idea about missions, so I’ll just skip this one.
Or wait, I do have something to say: just because an alternative form of gameplay takes the same amount of time is no reason it should get the same reward. There are many other factors as well, such as risk, skill required, ease of access…
What? I don’t get what you’re talking about here.
If player owned structures weren’t worth constructing, why do I see them everywhere in space?
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Why?
And combat has a lot more depth than than mining. More roles to fill means more ships.
High skill miners have a higher yield now.
And drones were rightly nerfed considering how they were being used.
Compression adds value and favours big refinery owners like the one in Perimeter.
This way people are more likely to use (and pay) their local refineries (i.e. the little structure owners).
I don’t even…
Mining mission pay isn’t bad at all considering how much safer it is. Are you factoring in LP into that?
Not sure what you’re getting at here. But structures are obviously worth it to some people. But they aren’t meant to be worth it to everyone.
Rocks deplete twice as fast if you use T1 mods, but have been made twice as big (so NO CHANGE).
If you use T2 mods with low waste you increase the effective size of the belt (more ore available per belt than now).
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I want starcakes.
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Ridiculous. Mooncakes or go home.
This was all tied to the removal of remote boosting. They had to figure out a reason why someone would want to actually put a roq on the field when it couldn’t remote boost anymore. Probably should have just let it remote boost.
Well it’s not like you can escape before gankers warped on grid anyways with an orca?
There are many orcas being ganked for the sake of orcas! The hull last I checked was 1.8-1.9bil! There shouldn’t be fleets of orcas mining ore. I have saved many ganks as a t1 logistics in the trig invasions. My counter to it is to have logi or even ECM on grid. Being aware of the surroundings and tank well. There is no excuse to not practice anti ganking 101 Just because of new changes.
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Disclaimer: I don’t mine, never intend to mine, don’t know all the details of mining.
That said, this update strikes me as being a victim of “feature and code bloat, with no actual vision or understanding”. I suspect in 5 years this update will either have been mostly stripped out, or will be referred to as “more of that godawful code we have no idea how to update or fix”.
Why make a big deal of doubling resources, then in the same breath say you’re going to throw half those resources away as waste? (Except for T2 and faction modules). Wouldn’t it have been way simpler to simply put a yield bonus on those modules?
Why call it “scarcity ending” when waste leaves the end result mostly the same, but add loss to compression and reduce the output of Orcas and Rorqs? This actually means there will be LESS refined minerals total and scarcity will increase.
Why base your game on “trust no one, nowhere is safe, everything is a risk” and then keep trying with crappy design after crappy design to force players into fleets/corps? The end result has been shown in a lot of games: This design approach will cause the ones who already fleet to fleet harder, maybe 10% of solos will convert to sometime-fleeters, and they’ll drive 20% of your solo players away. (numbers used as a relative example, I don’t have data to illustrate those)
The rewrite of mining crystals seems really poor to me. I mean seriously, “we introduce a new playstyle where you can waste your opponents resources with really inefficient mining”?
Personally I have no problem with nuking Rorqs, Orcas, or mining, none of these changes are going to impact me. Just seems like another round of really poor design that the ever-hopefuls are interpreting as “Oh hey, look, changes. This is gonna be cool!”.
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the ganking aspect comes from having more elements designed to keep ships on grid (industrial cores) and mobile compression units. was that clear enought?
That footnote is pretty important.
They are doubling the resources and they give us the tools to make use of those double resources. If people use lower effiency modules without mining crystals or choose to use high yield low efficiency crystals it’s up to them.
The only thing I’m not really convinced is good about the waste system is how it may have a negative effect on newbies who want to mine the more valuable ores in a group, as people wouldn’t like it if half those ores go wasted due to lack of skills.
When using an Orca as a fleet booster you can stay aligned, even the best gankers show up on Dscan. I used Orcas in highsec and lowsec for years before they could mine, in fact I still have the first one I ever got, though it hasn’t undocked for a good while.
This changes with the proposed changes “CCPoor design” is looking at. To fully utilise an Orca once these changes go live, will mean you can compress ore, ice and gas (which is actually pretty good) - With the biggest drawback being grossly increased vulnerability due to how the compression module works.
Not really the same thing. Lower waste means that you get more resources from a belt but it takes longer to mine.
The whole waste mechanic seems to be an attempt to add strategic decisions to mining.
Want to make the most of a belt? Choose less waste.
Want to mine quickly (cause you’re in dangerous space)? Choose high yield.
Want to deny your enemies ore? Choose high waste.
I won’t say it’s perfect, but i believe that is the concept of waste.
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You do know mining Rorquals and Orcas is only a fairly recent thing? They were both around long before they became broken mining machines.
Many older players who multiboxed Rorquals will simply revert to what they did prior to the last changes, 1 Rorqual and as many subcap miners as their computers hardware will allow them to run.
For me it was usually 1 Rorq and 9 subcaps.
I can’t see why a smart Orca multiboxer can’t do the same, all it does is force you to interact with the actual game more often.
It is but I believe part of the goal is to get “Alt Armies” actively mining again. “CCPoor design” has been hemorrhaging subscribed players and need to find a way to get players to resub all their currently Alpha mining alts.
I wasn’t clear enough in my post, I guess. I don’t mean “Why have this, I don’t understand it.”
I mean “Why make this design decision when it’s a poor one and there are better ways of achieving the end goal?”.
I understand the point they are trying to sell with this update. I don’t have faith that CCP will implement it well or that it will turn out to be an improvement for the majority of mining in the game.
At any rate, we should see a brief boost in numbers as people login/sub for a month to check the changes out. Then we’ll find out if it leads to some recovery or just a further drop in player numbers.
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Yeah i don’t see any ideas forthcoming.
Maybe your idea of what the end goal is is different from CCP’s?
lol things just get better…
Glad you’re not in charge of Eve. Oh wait - are you?
No thanks.