As a player who has only recently returned after a very significant break in the game (9 yr) I can only offer my experience from the perspective of someone who has got into mining with multiple accounts in an era in which scarcity already existed.
For full disclosure I subscribe only 2x Omega accounts and one usually sits in a porpoise and the other in a mackinaw.
I am happy to see some of the changes to mining crystals and even to the role specific bonuses of ships but what disappoints me greatly are the significant nerfs to mining drones and the proposed waste mechanism
My current approach is to have the porpoise providing buffs and the exhumer doing the work with lasers, both have mining drones out and even with current bonuses on the porpoise the mackinaw with crystals still outperforms it as a mining platform.
I find it very difficult to accept that drones needed a further nerf which would make it feel even less like the character in the command ship is actually being useful. It seems like it would be better for me to just sit there with each character in an exhumer ?? That just seems counter productive and the fact that drones are likely to waste almost as much as they mine seems even more bizarre.
I canât / donât want to sub 8+ omega accounts to make decent income and whilst 'm trying to explore the mining game the way that I think the game encourages it, please donât break it further for me.
As someone else said up in the thread above - surely the point here isnât to have us just go back to sitting in anoms killing NPCs?
Compression with loss adds meaningful choices: do I compress at a station? Or directly refine it instead for more minerals? Is moving the bulk ore or the minerals for more reward an option? Could I build my stuff in/near the system I mine in to make better use of the uncompressed ore? Do I mine near a mining booster for more efficient compression?
Compression without losses takes these meaningful choices away. If you can compress: you compress.
There are things that I donât agree with in the mining update, but compression loss is one of the better ideas.
It does not. None of these choices are meaningful to begin with. You cannot just mine in a place where you want to build things if there is no meaningful mining possible (the system where I used to build thing only had 2 asteroid belts and no moon mining was possible). Moving the compressed ore is just as much of a meaningful choice as moving bulk ore or reprocessed minerals.
Lossless compression even gives you more actual choices because you are not confined by your locality and instead can bring the ore where itâs best to use it. With compression loss you are limited to what you have available near you.
The choice to build things or not from the mining is irrelevant to compression. If someone wants to build things from the mined ore, they compress or donât or reprocess anyway already. Compression with losses makes their lives harder because they now need to take more material consumption and more transport cost into account. If you donât have the skills or facilities to build something, this is not a choice available to you because without the proper skills you waste materials and time instead of earning ISK with the ore that you mined. Nothing of that is making anything better.
Mining near a booster is not a god given opportunity for everyone. It only means that you either have to limit your mining to locations where boosters are available or get booster alts yourself. Also very meaningful.
Nothing of this is meaningful in the sense that it makes the gameplay better. Itâs only meaningful if you consider more tedium âmeaningfulâ. Rattati obviously does.
Not really, because if you can compress without loss, there is no gain in moving uncompressed ore or minerals, which means those options are inferior. With compression loss those other options get a (small) advantage, even though they require bulk transport.
Then itâs not an advantage. Itâs just more tedium for the sake of it.
Not to mention that compression also allows for production in arcane places that are far away from hubs. With compression loss added to the reprocessing loss, these options become less appealing because they increase the cost for the business even more and eat up even more of the cost advantages from lower indexes.
Exactly this!!! WASTE multiplyer x1 , T1 drone = x1 T2 drone = x1 Faction drone = x1 no matter the drone itâs going to be a waste coefficient of x1 , not only that but they also nerf bonus that ships provide to drone yield ? what the sh*t ccp , itâs not the regular mining drones thatâs the problem , ITâS THE RORQUAL EXCAVATOR hello ? wake the F up , do you even know what youâve created?
@Vasistha_Idama what issues do you see with it and what do you suggest could be improved?
And I personally do like the complexity in the idea (thank you for seeing that) - I feel it achieves a lot of what CCP aims to do while still attempting to provide game play options for players. It also sort of mirrors the PVE side of the game were the player has to decide, is it worth it to stop killing rats and collect the wrecks/salvage, run an alt or have someone else do it or let it go to waste.
Some simplification is nice - like the refining skills
Some complexity is nice - as long as it drives meaningful activity
Imagine being a pvp player who shows up on a Procurer to help alliance grind the moon down. You have no mining skills, so T1 it is. Every little bit helps, so youâre welcome.
And with current waste values, youâre told to gtfo, because youâre a waste liability. Same for newbies. Why?
Is having better yield really not enough incentive to invest in T2, and additional waste stick is needed?
Same for drones, but thereâs not even T2 reduction, the wastening they cause delivers a message âdonât use themâ. Why shouldnât we use them?
âMine faster but get less totalâ is an interesting concept. âMine less cuz you want to mineâ is not. Thus Iâd like to propose removing waste mechanics from everything except its intended target - B and C crystals.
I mean closer to home. The exact number of jumps depends on the willingness on the person to travel.
You can put 2-3bil of ore in a cloaky-mwd-warpstabbed miasmos. Transporting compressed ore in hi-sec is trivial.
If you sell your ore or minerals, anyone who wasnât transporting it to the T2 refinery in Perimeter first was missing a trick.
Once compression has waste, less people will be feeding isk to the big structure owners. And instead taking the ore to somewhere âlocalâ.
You realise that you are saying it takes away meaningful choice⌠And then describing a meaningful choice. About where you mine, how you move your ore and where you put what structures.
Thatâs not a meaningful choice. That is a choice between two bad results but thatâs consistent with CCPâs definition of âmeaningfulâ, so you are probably right in any case.
i had a previews post saying about ccp introducing a new store that you can buy ship and equipment directly with your credit card ,when we had the magnificent industry patch after the scarcity .Some people mocked me ,now we are 1 step closer enjoy the new hull prices and when your wallet will go 0 there will be the solution from ccp buy your ship now we are pretty close to that now .
If you have two choices and each of them has a different downside, automatically they have an upside as well: they donât have the downside of the other option.
You donât seem to understand that 2 bad choices donât become meaningful or have upsides just because they are 2 different bads. But neither does CCP, so you are in good company.
These are meaningful choices for you? Well, in that case itâs no wonder that you donât see my point. A meaningful choice is not between the lesser of two evils. Meaningful choices are things like whether I can and want to mine in a certain place and whether I have the freedom to use the materials freely and not necessarily dependent on other people.
With changes like these you donât have meaningful choices, you have an illusion of that as the downsides force your hands, not what you consider an âupsideâ. Changes like these coerce you into particular actions.
As a low skill Rorq pilot (17.5 mil) with 2 miner alts (about 7mil. Skill points) that fly mining barge the change is a bit of catastrophic and I will try to explain my point of view:
The changes that affect low skill miner are as follow:
INDUSTRIAL CORE CHANGE:
Why should I risk a Rorq (8.5 bil)
The bonus from 500% is now 200% for Mining Yield and it is to low to risk the ship
The Rorq is or will be very hard to replace thanks to Production changes
The compression change is the right way but it takes to long (4.5 min) and requires too many skills for a low skill miner so I must train them and cannot train other let´s say production or PvP skills.
The Rorq is a very nice whaling target so you must assume that you would be targeted by PvP players often. 5 min immobility is a very long time even with great Intel.
So why risk a Rorq in future or better why should a new player train for an Rorq in future:
If it stays this way there are non to be clear, the risk is too big and I do not gain anything back to risk a Rorq on the field.
What CCP can do about it to improve or give players a reason to train for an Rorq:
The bonus must be higher the 500 % is too big but 200% is to low comparing to orca with 150 %. My proposal is to lower the Tech II Industry Core to 350%.
To ensure that this will not be abused limit the Rorq number in a belt, you can use some sort of a beacon that the Rorq must be attached to. Let´s say a beacon you must attach to so you can active the Industry Core and the number of beacons determinate the number of Rorq.
The Compression method must be easy to use and much faster like:
3 Module (Tech I, Tech II, and Faction) for ICE, ORE, and GAS to ensure that playerâs skill in to this module you can add a benefit for high skilled player like bonus to compression. Compression efficient like Reprocess efficiency.
THE WASTE MECHANICS:
Why should I be a miner in the first place:
The increase of the ORE amount in the belts is the right way but the new player has nothing from that with this waste mechanic.
The Corps will deny the new players to mine let´s say the R64 Moon ore because the new player waste the amount that can be mined. In other words the new player is a waste to the Corp!
With this it will be very hard for new players to be accepted as miners in the corps.
What CCP can do about it:
Not implement the waste mechanics. I cannot see any point in this; if you call it bonus to high skill players it will still be a reason not to allow the new players to mine.
The better way is that you increase the amount in lower percentage and the mechanic stays the same.
THE REBALANCE CHANGES IN TOTAL:
In my opinion it is not a new player friendly, the new player must invest much much time to accomplish something in almost every aspect of the PvE game. As an example a new player that wish to skill for a battleship can do it but it is expensive to fly with it. ESS Change, Mining change, etc. that hurts most the new or low skill player not the veterans.
The production is now so complicated that for a new player it is much harder to start with it â new expensive BP, you can´t mine everything by yourself you must import it, etc.
As I have started with EVE Online my wish (As almost of all players) is to fly a Titan one day but thanks to the changes CCP introduced it will be almost an impossible task, and I do not PLEX my accounts.
The Capital ships are too expensive now. To keep more or less every change you have implement so far but also to ensure the prosperity, and the most important thing the wish to play, you can restore all the ore in all regions so the capital production can mine what they need, in this way the ships will be more affordable but will not be cheap.
I will wait the end to see what changes are final for TQ, and if it stays that way and the investment of time is too high for the reward I will stay an Alpha and fly Gila in HighsecâŚ
Hope you read this and implement changes that encourage new players like me to subscribe again and play the game they love, but with this changes in tact it is almost impossible to accomplish something with 14h game time a week, the player community has a Real Life, Real Work, Real obligations that prevents them to spend more time in game.
Maybe this shouldnt be gas, maybe asteroids could leave some dust or something else, that would be accesabe only for small ships or mining support ships. That idea: exhumers mining big asteroids and leave behind some dust and not accesable for them resources, that can be harvested by other ships is very good.
