And make Fedos necessary to maintain ESS.
Don’t give them ideas.
Should have started with “unbuffed”.
Nah, not even with T2 rigs, still 10% below unbuffed cov.
Unless fancy drones. And why would you have an unbuffed cov if you have orca…
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Waste should be a mechanic applied to rorqs and orcas only. You want to mine super fast with a huge ship? Cool go get it but you’re going to destroy a good bit of what you pull from.
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As you yourself explained above.
“Moving ore in HS is trivial”.
So why wouldn’t you move it somewhere you can maximise return.
“anyone who wasn’t transporting it to the T2 refinery in Perimeter first was missing a trick.”
What changed?
Did it not make sense when you said it?
I would think introducing waste in compressing would make it more important to maximise refining. If you’ve spent hours mining, then lost 3% of your yield by compressing it, wouldn’t it be worth your time to get it to the best refinery available to reduce further losses?
Nothing.
I wanted to comment on that yesterday but thought I should check that citadel before commenting. Checked it in the meantime, and as expected, it’s inferior to the public accessible refineries in lowsec.
Perimeter in general is a poor system to do industry in. After Jita, it’s the number two highest fee system. And the number one thing noone wants to do with minerals is moving them, right? So just reproc your stuff where you build.
Not even with fancy drones: Here’s all formulars and numbers for mining yield in Eve Online (github.com)
No, it wouldn’t - unless you also do your own industry. For everyone else (like newer folks or just dedicated miners), you must compress because haling this stuff to major markets is ridiculously time-consuming when you’re talking uncompressed ore or refined minerals. Alternately you could pay for hauling - valid strategy but you’re still making less ISK than today, which will lead to fewer miners and higher prices.
If this was CCP’s goal (to make it even less attractive to mine) then they will achieve that goal. If they don’t want to reduce mining (which will also drive prices up since there will be less raw materials), then this change will be a total failure.
Another question regarding high sec Moon Ores.
Since the Common Moon Ores will not include the high sec moon ore types, will the current Ubiquitous Moon Ore crystals be retained, or will high sec moon ore miners be forced to use Strip Miner Is with 100% waste and reduced yield?
That is, besides the already planned 50% reduction in value of the ore itself by removal of the minerals…
That’s the point you should not be the same as someone who has played the game for 10+ years, when you fist start . This whole thing is retarded , you want to play and learn then play and learn. The playing and learning, the achievements I have made are what keeps me playing. CCP allowing this way of PAY TO WIN is a slap to the guys that paid for their kids to eat when they first started this game. You don’t cut off the hands that feed you, that’s a pretty well known saying.
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It is but for those HS miners who won’t/don’t want to risk lowsec, it is the best option as highsec stations suck at refining and finding a T2 rigged refinery is difficult at best.
Add to this the many HS miners who simply refine and sell the minerals rather than build anything with them…
He was doing “unbuffed” covetor.
Unbuffed covetor is 27.54 m3/s
Orca with T2 drones is 24.75 m3/s.
Orca with Augmented is 27.75 m3/s.
So technically with zero travel time it is possible to match an unbuffed covetor.
Now we only need to find an actual unbuffed covetor mining…
Covetor’s T1 drones would provide 4.94 m3/s, T2 drones a bit more. Using drones isn’t very covetor-y, but i’ve seen it being done before, and “engaging” with a command ship isn’t very command ship-y either, so the number for the covetor would be 27.54 m3/s from the strip miners + 4.94 m3/s from the drones = 32.48 m3/s against the orca’s 27.75 m3/s
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I see what you mean now.
That 3% difference may be the difference between Perimeter refinery being optimal or a local refinery without compression being more optimal.
Depending on what kind of resources for moving ore you have and how much you value your time, you may be quite happy moving uncompressed ore a few jumps and reprocessing it without compressing. There’s also refinery tax to factor in as well.
Long story short is still that less ‘perfect’ structures are more competitive with the T2 refinery in Perimeter when the rule is no longer ‘always compress all the time’.
Compressors may be effected by the core, but by no means require it.
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Damn. I did it wrong for years then. When I first started there were no structures to refine in we had a POS or NPC station. I started out mining in Ammatar space, refining in a station then once a week I’d haul it to Jita to sell. Once I’d made a bit of isk I put up a POS to use for refining and safewarp if needed. Still hauled minerals to Jita once a week simply because minerals sold better than ore, so was better for my wallet.
The major difference between Eve years ago and now - To get ahead you had to put in the time and effort. Sure there were easier ways to do things but most who went that way aren’t around anymore. You had to find your niche and min/max the living daylights out of it, Devs have always underestimated the lengths players will go to exceed anything they put into the game.
Scarcity and everything that comes after it is a direct result of CCP/Devs underestimating players AND not listening when players [including many on the CSM back then] tried to warn them of the dangers of turning the Rorqual into what it became.
CCP Rattati said it best in his recent interview - WE MISSED IT.
Which really isn’t anything new, it’s been happening for many years. Just no-one from CCP has ever come out and said as much as publically before.
Seriously how could CCP not see that turning the Rorqual into a mining beast would not end badly? Eve was built on pushing everything CCP put out there and multiboxing the crap out of it.
Jeez, before they got nerfed out of valid game play I [and many many others] used to multibox Capitals like gankers multibox catalysts. Ganking actually became a thing long before gangs of destroyers started killing T1 haulers in HS for jollies. It really started with NC. PL and a few other lesser groups jumping from one side of new eden to the other in short time [no jump fatigue then] with “fleets” of capitals and supers to kill a guy running lvl 5’s in a carrier.
CCP in their wisdom decided capital ships were too mobile after someone at CCP listened to the minority who screamed loudly about how NC. PL were bullies and so we got jump fatigue which over the years and many nerfs later has led to what we have today, thousands of capital ships sitting in hangars, many never to be boarded and undocked again. Of course there were a few changes, like turning carriers and dreads into the ultimate subcap killers [who couldn’t foresee that going badly] which was fun while it lasted .
Anyway my point to this ramble is, 18 years on, heading toward a 3rd decade of Eve Online and No-one at CCP [except maybe the guy who cleans the office] has learned a thing from years of mistakes and this coming release is just the next in a very long line of the same.
Eve is trying to broaden its appeal outside the hardnosed, stubborn, headfirst and bugger the consequences type of player the game has pretty much exclusively attracted for 18 years - sadly, it is happening at the expense of the sandbox Eve built its reputation on.
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Everyone here is dodging the most important question of all: is the Orca getting an animation for the industrial core?
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I love orca bumping. Will the Industrial Core, that immobilizes the Orca, make it immune to bumping?
Nah, if anything they can’t react in any way for 5 whole minutes
No, because of the increased mass it doesn’t go as fast, but it does gain a lot of momentum and still goes as far. Plus since it has the core running, it can’t travel back until the core cycles down.
Not yet, first thing I looked into.
Unless it is so subtle that I didn’t notice.
EDIT:
It seems odd that it doesn’t, since the art team feel like the only guys actually working. But it may be that they were busy making all the New Dawn skins for us to buy.
Pretty much in the same way they didn’t see that the Rorqual changes also led to cap umbrella necessity, which pretty much would (and has) kill(ed) small/medium group pvp.
In the similar way that they didn’t see that game play for small alliances would be poorly affected by the introduction of Upwell structures, sentencing them to become renters for the most part. Nullsec became big boy country only.
In the same way they didn’t see that high sec moon mining would help nuke the economy.
In the same way they stimulated afk mining with orcas in high sec space.
There’s this thing about businesses that exist by the grace of creating new things. Every person, if hired correctly, has ideas. Most ideas are always the “best”, of course. These ideas, if politically lucky - and depending on corporate structure - get championed by a “higher up”. From that point onward, they are near impossible to kill unless from within the company - again depending on corporate structure, quality and subject knowledge of senior management or often just raw political power.
The less obvious and riskier solution to such a company culture is that projects become championed by the people who first came up with the idea, not by “higher ups”. It requires reorganizing the place, the will to do it and the understanding that it is a necessity.
The hardest aspect to understand for a commerce is that there’s two ways to go about making a profit: 1) make money centered decisions and let every other decision depend on it and 2) trust the creativity of your collaborators in the knowledge that if the product is good, money will come streaming in with a basic marketing effort in the beginning.
Noticed how devblogs about changes are no longer mentioning champions ? It’s “EvE Online Team” - and that is, in my opinion, not only to protect certain devs/project champions from public backlash.
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Also Quantum cores.
They suck.
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