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792

Some follow-up feedback to my previous feedback: Orca changes, testing on SISI.

One compact compression module is enough to keep up with one Covetor.

Orca has six high-slots, fit three with command boosts, the mandatory compact core leaves two slots for compression modules. In the belt the Orca can compress ores at a rate to keep up with two Covetors. And that is using the old crystals – I will test the new crystals next if I feel the motivation and I am not really feeling any with what I have seen so far.

So far, these changes remind me of the change to the skills window – which was changed for the sake of change, no other reason and the result was worse than it was before and not an improvement. Ditto the changes to mining. The Orca loses a high-slot because all the hull bonuses it had are moved to a module. It seems against reason and nothing given to compensate i.e. extra high-slot and powergrid.

Another thing irking me is how asteroids are randomly spread about all over a belt now. While this does not impact lasers it does affect mining drones. This with the 100% wastage seems like a pretty clear message not to use mining drones under any circumstance. Originally, it was a selling point for the Orca to use mining drones, mine half a covetor worth of ores and do something active in addition to boosting the mining fleet - that selling point is now gone.

Any postives have expired.

6 Likes
793

Actually , He might be right about the size of protest. Small indy and solo pilots has nearly no capacity to pull that size of organised reaction.
Someone must be step on some priviliged well fed cats tails.

1 Like
794

First impression:

Totally not a fan of the new mining crystal icons. The old ones were fine. The new ones look cartoony and WOWesque ie gross and out of place for a gritty universe.

795

Why? If they can’t compete with organized groups, they need to organize themselves. That’s already possible and being done. If some don’t want to and expect rewards, they should ne shunned, not cherished.

796

@CCP_Rattati What are you doing to improve R4s if you remove the minerals? What is being added? Or will high-sec moons lose 1/4 of their value?

Can we also address the NPC mining fleets? They are terrible to deal with for US timezone players, they eat out whole belts before we can login.

Also, give the hulk more tank and a third turret please.

1 Like
797

The Goons.

Mittens apparently released a Directive yesterday, if Reddit is to be believed.

798

you cultivate new players. HAH

799

Orca multiboxers too, and you’re forgetting the alts, oh so many alts. It’s their MO, after all.

800

First scarcity, then doubling the quantity of ore to at the same time delete it back to what is was after the nerf in the form of added waste, that’s just completely unnecessary and adds nothing but complexity for the sake of having complexity.
From start to end, tthe whole thing ccp did here is on par with the jita scams where they advertise 500 plex for sale, while asking for 1.5b and 500 plex in return.

Removing an important mid-slot from the skiff is extremely bad imo, as well as reducing its base hp and shield by a LOT.
This change is a big hit to the skiffs, 45% slower, twice as heavy despite it’s the smallest in the family, more vulnerable, very little positive here.

Nerfing the orca for solo mining is a good thing, there are too many of them and likely a lot of bots using them, but don’t make the orca useless.
ADD slots to the orca for the necessary modules and make ONE orca capable of compressing the ore from at least 4-5 high-yield exhumers without lagging behind.

750 heavy water per cycle for the compact core II is about 740-750 too many imo.

Skip the whole concept with “waste”, it would be better to simply reduce yield for the most basic mining modules and reward higher skilled miners with a slight increase in yield with t2 modules. Forget about faction modules, they are wayyy too much rewarded in this.

Skip the whole change to mining crystals.

The changes to skills are mostly good, but should be adapted for keeping the same crystals as before.

3 Likes
801

If you insist. You are saying 1/6 accounts regularly connected belongs to “a few” multiboxers, and they are all Omega, and I was there as the only solo barge miner. Anyway, 1/6 of the accounts online at peak hour, is quite a lot of money for CCP. Just saying that it is dishonest to say the only ones unhappy about what is comming are rorq and orca players (and the “infamous” multiboxers)

1 Like
802

you do realise that CCP have created this problem right ? The change they are making just ENCOURAGE this behavior even more. SOLO MINING in a barge / exhumer or an Orca / Rorqual is subpar to what it was before.

The ores are now so spread out in belts you HAVE to get a boost , they are so spread out in fact that in a range of 15 km you probably have 1 to 3 asteroids. 70% of the asteroids when you warp in at 0 (which is the middle of a belt) are at 45km away… your 15km strip miner T2 won’t reach that , but with an Orca boosting you will easily reach 70km see the issue here ?

So this change makes it so it’s even MORE advantageous to multibox with a an orca / rorq and a fleet of barges/exhumers controlled by a single character.

I tried on SISI with solo mining Orca and solo mining with a Procurer. Orca have trouble with the drones decimating roids with the industrial core (locked in belt for 5 mins per cycle and requiring heavy water, if you break close by roids you have to wait for the cycle time to relocate yourself ).
with the procurer the 15km range on the strip miners T2 makes it so you have to travel ALOT to be close to anything , you can make a bookmark and warp to 0 sure , with the size of those new roids tho you will be bumped away from warping inside, you will also have to distance yourself because their size doesn’t represent their actual distance correctly , so it may look like 5km away but in actual you are at 0km of it and keep bumping , making a quick escape impossible.

So you are complaining that the issue of “Fleet of multibox” is an issue for you. Guess what buddy , this new Fleet of Multibox will be the ONLY viable way to mine efficiently now with these changes. It won’t benefit SOLO miners like YOU. At all. not even close. This is pure GREED from CCP to encourage people buying MULTIPLE accounts.

5 Likes
803

How is Jita being flooded by protests right now?

So i did some number brunching an hour ago.

Adjusting for the time of the week, there were an extra 3.4K people in Jita on top of the normal average.

I went through several assumptions.

High sec miners might protest.
Low sec miners might go to Jita and protest.
Null sec barge miners wouldn’t risk their implants, so they won’t leave their alliance area. (They can’t exactly come in on an industrial cyno if they don’t have a freighter character).
Null sec Roqual pilots might protest.
Because few barge players have a Jita alt to switch to (I know some do, but a lot of trade is done within a null block not with high sec, so many wouldn’t have a use for an Alt who sits in Jita only to buy things and many who do need something from high would just ask a buddy in the corp who does, so there can’t be too many of these) and Roqual pilots are outnumbered by barge ones, few null miners will be able to show up within a day of the patch announcement.
Bots, that hopefully will be deleted some day, wouldn’t protest because their puppet masters realize this is OK for them. I mean they can just waste a whole belt/moon and move on.
People need to be on simultaneously to put the server into TiDi, sequential protests wouldn’t do so.
People who get at least 7/8 of their income from ratting don’t care enough about mining to protest, even if their character is fully leveled in barge skills.
The number of people who fit in the categories I assumed would protest is less than 3.5 K at any given time.
Therefore the protest in Jita should not have reached the scale it did.

Ok, at least one of these assumptions is wrong, but which one is it?

804

CCP seems you’re only creating more scarcity. Sure, you’re doubling the amount of resources, but you’re also reducing the yield by nearly 50% across New Eden through waste and compression loss. Now calculator will be necessary to interpret survey scanner results and to determine the number of cycles are needed to mine a full load.

Looks like the more volume a resource has, the more quantity is lost to waste?

I don’t necessarily disagree with the introduction of Mining Waste, but wasn’t waste already represented by yield bonuses? Better yield meant less waste. Now you’re just making mining waste more visible and adding penalties for using non-faction modules.

Without understanding the impact of mining waste, why would you set the probability between the extremes, 0, 34, and 100%. Starting with the extremes is just a recipe to upset the player base with future nerfs and buffs. Starting at the median and gradually adjusting the values would be less drastic and cause less friction.

The mining waste multiplier explanation shows that CCP really doesn’t understand mining. Miners do not care about the quantity of the blue ice as shown in the example. Miners are focused on m3, the amount of hold space, and m3 per cycle. Mining modules don’t show quantity per cycle, it’s all about the m3.

I was able to confirm on Singularity, the m3 per cycle isn’t accurate for non-faction mining modules. The amount of m3 per cycle shown did not end up in the hold, because of mining waste. After 1 cycle:

@MalcomReynolds_Serenity @Suki_Vokkonen I concede, my math is off. I was looking for a quick litmus test to see mining waste in action, thought I encountered it, and wanted to emphasize that miners are mainly concerned with m3.

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Thanks for the extra mid-slots, but now I’ll have two. Since a survey scanner won’t be accurate or very useful, might as well blindly mine and wait for the hold to fill up.

After mining an entire asteroid (5,995 m3), the total volume in my ore hold was less than half (2,520 m3).

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3 Likes
805

For me, as a solo miner in hisec I mainly use the Orca. With these changes mining is pretty much over for me, unless tank on Mackinaw is increased significantly, closer to a Procurer, making it a viable option. The rest of the changes I like, except compression efficiency being so bad for ice and compression module being so slow to compress.

806

EVERYONE IS PROTESTING

5 Likes
807

how long have you been playing the game?

you do know it is impossible to mine 1373 cubic meters of any ore that is 16 cubic meters per unit right?

1 Like
808

What you faced there could be the results of the “waste first” mechanic, where if you let your last cycle to finish the rock to go it’s full 180 seconds, you are only wasting the rock entirely and you got zero in your hold for that last cycle.

809

The null assumptions. Mittens sent a Directive to the goons to protest (if Reddit is to be believed, it’s not the best source), that would explain the numbers.

810

How long have you been doing math?
You do know it is possible to mine 1373 cubic meters of any asteroid that is bigger than 1373 cubic meter, right ?

811

I’ll take it with a grain of salt, but if this is true I need to actually thank the Goons.

And I thought I was too far to care about what they did.