you can protest in this jita even until 2033…
Compression Arrays don’t seem to have the lossy compression added on SISI.
Please don’t forget them 
in the thread a people say POS compression module dont function.
I tried searching in the thread for array. Seems I didn’t search well enough.
Thank you for the information
That is ridiculous. In J-space, you are always near a structure. No one is mining in J-space in random holes and moves their big toys there. People in J-space always mine in their hole or have a connection to their hole which has the structures. Assuming otherwise is just stupid … and typical for CCP pipedreaming.
Thanks to structures, such areas don’t exist. And even if they existed, shipping stuff out or simply refining at site is superior to this ridiculously tedious minigame.
That aside: Trig ore and moon ore were originally, even by Rattatata, designed to be hard to move so that it (trig ore) would not flood the markets too much and would have to be used or reprocessed into tiny goo on site (moon ore).
They are still easy to multibox and have no big drawbacks if CCP changes drone waste. If CCP had wanted to turn them into great boosters and mining support ships only, they would have used a different approach that actually enforces this role without making the ship a ridiculously tedious minigame platform that requires people to become bots themselves.
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how so? you mine other holes, and you now can you the same mass fleet through a hole with more resources onboard, instead of possibly collapsing the hole be flying DST or other resource haulers backwards and forward to bring what your mining.
I know of a number of groups that are looking at the porpoise as a gas or ice mining command ship for exploration mining fleets. Think about having compression inside a shattered ice hole, and the amount of ice you’d be able to fly out once compressed, less ships more resources shipped.
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make an offering and tie ruda to a rock by the ocean then your prayers will be heard…
any news on the walking in stations feature?
not included in this update?
And that is not how this was supposed to work and how these holes were designed. Rattatata is again ignoring the original design of these featues to push through something not though through for the oddest reasons. You were not supposed to mass farm these holes with ease. They were meant to be difficult to use. That is why you cannot anchor structures in these holes, for instance. If you can now mass farm these holes for resources, there’s no reason to keep people from actually living in them like any other hole type, either.
Clearly you havent tried them on SiSi yet lol. If you got rid of the wastage…sure you could argue ore mining is ‘ok’ i guess…35-40% yield nerf, but when it comes to ice…almost 3 times longer cycle time…nope
They still mine more than an Exhumer, they are still easier to move, easier to defend and easier to multibox.
I thought in space compression was going to be better, not worse than structure compression. That’s what the devblog said:
Compression in stations will have a different efficiency depending on the type of resource that is being compressed, except moon compression will not be available. Compression will still be instantaneous but will be less efficient than in-space compression.
So people are going to want to compress in space, unless:
- they don’t have enough time, as compressing in space takes time
- they don’t have a mining support ship nearby
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What I would like to see is a dev blog that outlines what CCP views as an imbalance, what CCP is considering in order to address that imbalance, and what sort of high level overview of player industrial behavior and resource consumption is the end goal.
Then, when CCP decides to make changes like this, I’d like to see CCP refer back to this devblog and explain how the changes being made are going to lead to that end. That, or tell us how the priorities have changed when new changes go into effect and update the devblog to reflect those new priorities.
While I am skeptical of whether CCP Psych really wants more feedback given the angry and unhelpful tone of much of it, it would be helpful for those of us trying to give earnest feedback if we could frame it in terms of what you’re trying to achieve. To do that, we need to be in the loop regarding what that end goal is. As it stands, I feel like we’re all guessing at CCP’s intentions, coming to different conclusions, and talking at cross purposes because of it.
Setting expectations, reminding us of what expectations we should have (because, candidly, we all have short memories for these things no matter how reasonable it would be for us to be otherwise), and showing us how those expectations are being met in a frequent, transparent, and obvious fashion could go some distance in making people less angry in the long run and give reasonable people a solid basis for formulating useful feedback and good ideas to help you, as a company, meet them.
I know specifics of what changes are going to be made need to be kept top secret so that players don’t try to game the system with that foreknowledge, but I find it hard to believe there is absolutely no room to be more inclusive of the player base when directing the future of the game they play.
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really like a lot of the changes except for a few glaring issues:
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WAY tooo many compression modules, give us ONE or maybe 3, if you are pushing rorq/orca etc. as support ships, don’t make it harder to be a support ship for a mining fleet
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taking away 2 mids for 1 low slot on the proc is HORRIBLE, you say you want more active gameplay and allow miners to better defend themselves, bait procs are amazing, but with only 2 mids, you kill that style of gameplay completely unless you give 2 lows to make up for taking away 2 mids
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it is if you have good skills, but just having lvl1 basic skills and an Ti compression unite, will you can imagine.
I’ve got an orca in sisi with T2 units fitted and max skills and it’s compression efficiency is 98% and cycle time just over 1 minute.
But low skills the time is @ 1.5minutes per cycle and efficiency isn’t too good.
And yes moon compression on structures are said to worse than the 10% for the other resource types
even ice mining drone you still get the cycle reduction , from 5 min base cycle of a t2 ice drone down to 2 minutes cycle with the core
This patch entrenches scarcity into the new normal.
The deflationary state will continue, not just in terms of isk but also in materials and gameplay experiences that people can have. In fact, this is no mere reversion to some pre-rorqual abuse time as some think. Pre rorqual there was a completely different distribution of resources, consumption by blueprints and passive mining that added materials to the game and no longer do.
So why does CCP feel the need to do this? Was capital proliferation so bad? Was the speed at which people moved from goal to goal so bad? Why entrench the dramatic overcorrections of the past two years into the future? Why add so much grind into the game? Why cannibalize your own game to the point you are making all endgame inaccessible?
I wish to be wrong but I can only think they are preparing the game for further monetization. If the game is in deflation any further RMT items they may introduce, such as mining expert systems for newbies to waste less, gains in value and desirability. Furthermore, any resource, materials, isk, SP or otherwise they may seek to introduce has room to exist thanks to the now natural deflationary state of the economy.
CCP and PA are right in that we will be back regardless of how much we unsubscribe now. There is nothing else like EVE. It cannot currently be substituted. Even in a more monetized, hyper-grindy state it remains the only viable grand scale pvp mmo.
I can only ask CCP to please not use this near-invulnerable position they have in the mmo market to merely prosper off our wallets as much as possible. Use your position to continue creating the greatest game currently. Do not abandon your essence for some greed. This is not the way to EVE forever.
CCP, please abandon the path you are currently in. Stop removing gameplay features. Stop lying to us with marketing. Greed is not good, abundance does not breed complacency and Q4 is not an age of prosperity. Do what you must monetization wise but please try to fix mistakes of the past by making them obsolete with new mechanics and ships. You cannot develop our game exclusively from dataset value changes. Take a look at how your sister mmo BDO manages to add value over time to the experiences of the players in spite of its awful monetization and progression system. The sand must continue entering the sandbox. We all know you have revenue room to do so from the recent PA earning calls.
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Can I suggest a minor change?
It might be a good idea to change the word waste in the mining tables to efficiency or to inefficiency (dependingon how you do the database).
As many think the waste is turning good resources into pure waste.
Where efficiency would make them realize that the better the meta of the item in question has a better benefit to mining and thus increases the amount of available resource to mine.
And leave waste as a description of the byproduct of the less efficient meta items.
As I understand it.
A t1 item is 100% inefficient and for every unit of resource mined one unit of dust is produced. And as such only mines the same as it current would on the live server.
A t2 is 35% (think that’s the %) and thus for every unit mined roughly a 1/3 of a unit of dust is produced, and thus gains access to 2/3 more resources from the source than would normally be available with t1 items.
But a factional/ORC item is 100% efficient and thus produces no dust, and thus gains even more resources from the source.
all great ideas
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I am rather flabbergasted by the whole Concept that got into play here.
We are looking at a basic change of the intake of new Players and on a massive complication of Calculating Outcomes and needs with this Patch.
I mean frankly if i wish to run a company i just can turn off the PC and go into my Real Life.
As Players it feels like we asked CCP for something and got an answer that was given upside down hanging while looking in a Mirror.
The Progression of Mining ships from Frigate to Exhumer to Orca to Roqual was with the Roqual broken as it was still okay. At no point i can fairly understand how you now have to introduce mining crystals again in order to not waste and with the unwillingness or understanding of a lot of new players this will lead to much more waste than return.
Calculated through we barely can mine or produce more ressources without investing a lot more time into this activity and combined with some of the Stockpiles of older players this means anyone who didn’t save and stockpile minerals and ores now gets a massive slap to the income face. Especially when you are a new player.
Frankly:
Intake for new players happens 2 - 3 ways , Scanning , Missionrunning or Mining.
Can you really afford to overcomplicate one of the 3 more? Mining is the fallback for new players after they lost a ship. This will be a horrible experience. Not to mention that there are still this Industial Changes that hamper older Players. (You know i don’t have a freighter that can transport water 3 times to finish ONE capital vessel on hand.)
Frankly a lot of this comodities have to be dumbed down otherwise there will be a hard deflation of a lot of stuff. Not to mention that people with stockpiles are now evne more likely to quit the game and this stockpiles will be lost to us but count in your statistics.
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