From Extraction to Production

So, the belts getting a x2 multiplier, except that every way to mine it has a x2 waset multiplier

So that means that by the time you calculate what you can actually put in your ship with PERFECT skills, its exactally the same.

Except, if you want to compress it to move it anywhere useful, it then becomes a net ‘loss’ for the belt by whatever the compression rate is (the rorqual has ‘only’ a 10% loss) so that then in effect means that the ice belt has only 90% of its current total value.

Now lets say you happen to have a new corp bro who’s only got a covetor with t1 lasers… OOooof… that ice belts now only got 60% of its total value.

(which can only be mined at the speed of an exhumber, no more massive rorqual fleet hoovering it up)

So, with LESS avalible resourses, and LESS avaliable mineing power, were going to see more mineing?

The only thing this patch is going to redistribute is my money to another game company.

12 Likes

just read the notes, jesus,
Firstly, compression modules requiring you to load ore from your cargo hold into them, rather than the ore/gas/ice hold… who thought that was a good idea, and when you figure that one out can you ask them nicely to load from the specialised holds?
Or as an example, take em into the carpark when it’s snowed, give em a wheelbarrow, tell em to fill the wheel barrow, but each amount of snow has to be put into their trouser pocket first. Quite apt, as there will be “waste”
Secondly, how about the new compression skills not be the same tier as indy reconfig? otherwise anyone using their now nerfed command ship for compression will need to spend at least 9-12 months getting it as close to the previous abilities when it comes to compression. 9 skills to train to V, plus 3-6 depending on how they play it with the orca/rorq.
I’m guessing that the spreadsheet only has numbers populated when it is something that has changed, if so why do they not show the changes in the role bonuses? I dearly want the rorq to still have drone bonuses, otherwise how the hell is it gonna be of any use in a gatecamp.

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Of course! It’s a valid concern and CCP are always pushing to get more alts. Especially In mining where you need alts to make it worthwhile. There is a lot to take in.

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No, not every way to mine it has a x2 waste multiplier.

For T1 modules it seems you’re correct: 1 yield and 1 waste 100% of the time.

But if you use T2 modules you get a x2 multiplier 34% of the time. For faction modules you don’t get any waste at all. And for type C crystals you get +18 waste multiplier (well, not a multiplier but an addition, I’m not sure how those calculations work exactly yet), which I guess allows players to quickly get rid of asteroids they do not want because it is someone else’s valuable moon.

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large amounts of resourses cut off capital builds?

What, you only need 2 charons full of heavy water to build a dread now instead of 3?

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These changes are just promoting booting, people value there time, nobody wants to waste double their time in mining for the same yield.

This still can be fixed:

  • drop the waste mechanic
  • drop the nerfs to rorqual and orca
  • Simplify that mess with new compression mechanic
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If training for better equipment against mining waste takes significant period (3-4 or more months), its going to be serious problem. Generally I dont see a sense in this mechanic, what purpose could it serve. Something tells me CCP wanted to introduce something ,innovative’’ when really, it was all about stealth-countering doubled ores buff to reduce final increase in our income from mining to minimum. It’s pessimistic scenario, but not impossible.

6 Likes

T2 modules is the equipment ‘against waste’. I suppose most miners already have that.

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It’s the same yield in the same time. Amount of ore in a belt has doubled, which means less time switching belts, and compression means less time spent hauling. All of which means more time spent mining.

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I personally like the realism here. Mining shouldn’t always have 100% yield. Reprocessing doesn’t have 100% yield? Not sure on how to feel about it.

I don’t see how it’s nerfed. Before, you would have to attend your afk orca that was 2 meters off the rock it was mining every half an hour to warp it off, unload, and warp it to another large rock (multi-week r4 pulls, anoms, …), so the drone movement speed wasn’t much of an issue anyways.

But OMG the orca warped for a minute, had to be clicked around to unload, then warped another minute, then had to be clicked around again to mine on. So much attention needed, really.

Now, you check it every half an hour, cycle the compression module, put drones on the next rock and use autoapproach. 5~10 seconds vs the former multiple minutes. And you’ll even be compressing at a higher efficiency then solo-procurer-miners who compress at the refinery

For solo miners, this Rorqual / Orca nerf is actually a Rorqual / Orca buff.

2 Likes

Yeah the waste mechanic is pretty irrelevant. The only effect it will have is:

  1. starter systems (1.0, 0.9) will have their belts emptied again.
  2. Teaching corps like E-Uni, Karmafleet Uni, Brave Dojo etc. will have to consider that every newbro that comes along will waste twice the amount of ores they mined and thus reduce the overall size of the belt. Which isn’t a huge thing, teaching corps can live with it.
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I dont even know where to start with that comment.

How dumb are you?

A ‘fleet’ of orcas, lets say a 5 man gang… That would cost what, close to 20bil after fits/drones? (and lets not include the time spent training the skills, or the isk spent on capital ship skill books or any of that other nonsense)

And that investment and risk should net you less than risking 1 orca, and 4 covetors?

How in the great wide world does that make any sense at all?

This again shows that CCP ONLY listens to the pvp element in this game. Because a fleet of orca’s is too tough of a cookie to crack for a solo ganker, so QQ moar, and then poof, there will be hulks everywhere again!

4 Likes

Definitely this.

Mission asteroids need to be made immune to waste, CCPlz before changes go live!!!

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Actually, this is a major nerf to alot of miners.

Think about an r64 moon.

We will have to ban anyone who doesnt have perfect skills from partricipateing in mineing it, or understand youll be at a net loss isk wise for allowing non perfect miners to join you.

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Because the Orca isn’t a mining ship anymore, it’s in a dedicated support role. That’s like asking “why are my 5 claymores less effective than one claymore and 4 feroxes?”

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Drones basically got a 50% nerf to yield due to the waste mechanic from what I understand from the post.

It is becoming less feasible to solo mine in them since the drone mining yield for both the Orca and Rorqual is being reduced.

Expected Waste Volume Multiplier Expected Waste Probability
Tech I Modules 1 100%
Tech II Modules 1 34%
Faction Modules 0 0%
Tech I Drones 1 100%
Tech II Drones 1 100%
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depends on the Gas yeah the yield is going to drop but actually being able to use command ships and barges for mining it in a controlled wh your going to see more isk an hr. I can see the K-space gasses being hurt but again being able to use skiffs is going to see your rate increase.

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Actually, no.

This will be exactally the same time spent mineing a belt.

IF you have prefect skills. As currently they double the ore in a rock, then add a mechanic where you lose exactally as much as you get (again for perfect skills) so a net over all =. However, if you do not have perfect skills, or chose to go with the ‘more for me, ■■■■ the next guy’ attitude, youll be there even less time, as your wastage increases.

So, for an individual who starts his day as downtime ends, he can mine exactally the same amount he did before. Except the guy who logs on 6 hours later, wont be able to mine at all, because dude A managed to wipe the system out 3x faster than before. (all the while dude A only got exactally what he was getting before)

This is a MASSIVE ■■■■■■■ nerf to the industry game.

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Uh, 5 claymores are better than one claymore and 4 feroxs if there all fit for dps dumbass?

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