“if there was ever been an existence as utterly unnecesary as the ccp dev team’s, it probably never existed to being with”
Agree.
I’d suggest you read the dev blog again.
With a T1 miner, you have a 100% chance to lose (in waste) exactly what you’ve mined, i.e. 100 mined, 100 lost from the roid, so a roid starting with 1k will have 800 after the first cycle.
With a T2 miner, you only have a 34% chance to lose what you mined in waste, i.e. after an average three cycles, the roid will have 600 left in it with 300 in your cargo.
Yield is exactly the same as before (check % bonus on mining crystals, harvesters, miners, etc), so you’ll spend the exact same time mining in a T1. You’ll be mining for longer with T2, and even longer with faction.
5 Likes
What is the reason type C crystals have such a heavy penalty to mining amount bonus?
I would think part of the intention of these crystals is to ninja mine the valuable ores in enemy moons and belts where you do not care about efficient mining, rather, where you would rather see the belt dry up much sooner. Type C crystals are great for that with their high amount of wasted ore. But at -75% mining amount bonus this means you’re filling your own ore hold at only a quarter your normal yield. Isn’t that penalty a bit excessive?
I understand that there is a penalty, but a -25% penalty could be enough, don’t you think? Even at 0 penalty and 0 bonus there is a ‘penalty’ for using those crystals - you’re not using the 50% bonus crystals type A or B after all!
One of the largest issues currently with industry is in regards to the Racial Neurolink triggers required for Faction and Pirate Ships. I love the idea of increasing Gas quantities but the current BPC requirements are over tuned.
Example a Faction Battleship takes 50 Triggers while a Pirate Battleship takes 100 Triggers / 50 of each Faction. I feel that the quantity required to build this ships is too much.
I mean were going from 1 to 10 to 50 for faction, and 2 to 20 to 100. That is an insane build increase. I think that overall it should be reduced.
Frigs are in a good spot
Cruisers should drop from 10 to 5 for Faction and from 20 to 12 Pirate (6/6 split)
Battleships should drop from 50 to 25 and from 100 to 60 for Pirate (30/30 Split)
With this you are still pricing Pirate ships higher than faction to match their power, but not completely overpricing them due to the excessive gas requirements required to make them.
Also, the gas site spawns need to be tuned due to their overall required demand, example Gal gas (Myko) is the most needed in the Galaxy because it is linked to more ships than any other, where is Minmatar gas is linked to the fewest, and thus the least popular.
The gas site shifts need to be dynamic, so more Gal gas spawning would help alleviate the choke point on a lot of ships.
2 Likes
I don’t support the orca being a decent miner because I like the idea of a command boost ship being good at it, but I support it because I hate having to have multiple accounts to have a decent yield.
They need to remove the command script that reduces miner cycle time and rebalance around that new yield. Replace it with one that significantly reduces waste so the rocks last longer.
That way if you were alone you could go out and mine some rocks and still get a decent yield without multiboxing. But if a fleet shows up with a command ship the rocks last longer per miner, you can compress ore, have more range, etc.
I think the script that adds +50% to your mining yield is the hidden problem with all these changes. Make it so solo mining isn’t terribad, but there are benefits to mining in a group.
4 Likes
@CCP_Dopamine
Please leave the mids on the procurer and skiff.
You already nerfed the ships plenty with the removal of HP from structure/armor/shield, the significant reduction in speed, and the increased signature radius.
The procurer and skiff used to be the fastest barges/exhumers - now they are the slowest. What is reason for this change?
Also, you doubled the mass of the ships - I would think that increased mass would logically mean more HP, not less!
The increases in resistances seems to make up for the removal on HP, but not for the removal of the mids. Besides that the ships need the mids for fitting propulsion modules now that their speed are nerfed into the ground (the skiff’s speed was almost halved! - seriously???).
Thank you.
10 Likes
10,000 hold is still inferior to the Endurance though for ice hauling. 
And the PI hold buff is marginal.
Primae should get a 20k ice hold and 50k PI hold imo.
What I’m really confused with in total on this update is why we’re making the Hulk even more fragile and bringing the Procurer and Skiff down as well. If they’re looking to shake up what people use, especially in highsec, we should be seeing the opposite happen, because anyone undocking in a Hulk is pretty much guaranteed to die as is.
3 Likes
Bad example, but the point still stands. People don’t fly Claymore fleets because it’s more efficient to use a few of them in a support role with the bulk of the fleet in dedicated DPS ships. If we changed that example to a value based one like you’re doing with the Orcas those 5 claymores would buy you a links claymore and 15 additional feroxes.
1 Like
Rate increase does not mean better income. I don’t need more gas to have better income, I need less gas on the market. With how prices are now, I have to mine double the time already to keep my income up, and with the coming changes that will double again. So, instead of only spending 4 hours per day, I will have to spend 8 hours for the same meager income. That’s something I am definitely looking forward to.
3 Likes
What is a properly fit barge? One fit for yield and mining efficiency or one fit to just be tank? You would say tank, but with the other changes here, most notably to waste, people are less and less likely to fit tank and fit for mining efficiency including scanners. I think you lot have it totally easy now and yet you still complain. Talk about missing the obvious?
As I said you lot should be pretty happy and yet you are not. 
I think hisec miner ganking just got one massive buff.
Skiff lost 10k buffer at least on my fit, the Proc lost 14k buffer, the Hulk lost 550 on my fit, that I did not expect… oh well, you should be happy as hell.
2 Likes
I dislike the new mining crystal icons. Why can’t we just use variations on the icons we’ve had for nearly 20 years. They are fine. However, I like the new gas harvester. So a mixed response.
Also as someone who expected Rorqual mining would break the game and eventually need to be fixed - you really could have avoided this entire godforsaken mess with a bit of foresight.
I hope beyond hope that the Scarcity (of players) period has taught you to very carefully consider the consequences of your actions before you implement changes that can force big shifts again. Remember, we didn’t make Scarcity necessary - you did.
3 Likes
So, you complain about having a hard time ganking a 5 capsuleer fleet with 1 capsuleer? If they can use 5 accounts, then you can, too. CCP introduced the fleet blops recently, so all your blops and t3c alts can land on the orcas in a single click, if you’re unhappy about the orcas spider tanking just add a little falcon alt with ecm mods on it to the blops, swap a damage t3c for a logi t3c (to keep the falcon alive) and go cap booster + ecm in all other mids on the falcon? 3 t3c and maybe a railgun on the falcon for the lolz will easily crunch through one orca after the other
In highsec, you can get 100 battlecruisers for 10b. You can’t micro 100 battlecruisers even if you have 100 accounts, but if you donnate the 100 BCs to CODE … guess what’s going to happen <.<
In null, bubble’n’enjoy
If you’re unhappy a single person with 5 omega subscriptions can mine so much, while a single-account user is no match to them, run lvl4 security missions with a single T3C / HAC / Marauder. You’ll be making more isk/hour then the 5 orcas to begin with, but you’ll also drop MTUs all over the place to scoop the rat loot and reproc them for minerals. Should provide you with quite a bit of Minerals… Last summer, I’ve built a supercarrier out of one week of nullsec belt rat loot (corona lockdowned so I was playing the game for 12-ish hours a day though).
2 Likes
Not really a nerf to yield, but a nerf to effective asteroid size. The nerf in drone yield comes from the orca and rorq losing their mining drone role bonuses.
With the waste, you can mine 100% of the asteroid with ORE miners, but only get half of it with T1/mining drones.
Does the Prospect lose the Gas Harvesting yield role bonus? If that’s the case, I expand on my previous statement: I don’t just need double the time, I will need quadruple the time… Fantastic.
Can someone explain to me why the Prospect needs to lose the yield bonus?
3 Likes
but you can huff with barges now! everyone wanted that right?!
1 Like
Looks like it?
And considering that you now have competition from fleets of mining barges huffing gas that will suppress the gas price, I think solo frigate gas huffing is no longer valueable at all.
Which is a shame.
5 Likes
tl;dr: Don’t forget to adjust Core Temperature Regulator m3.
Since the reduction of Core Temperature Regulator need for water was greatly reduced it makes sense to reduce its m3 accordingly. Otherwise it doubles the volume from the raw materials to the component after patch, iirc.
In my humble opinion the amount of water created interesting strategic dilemma for big blocks where the best course of action was to harvest the water in the same system as you created Capital CTR’s (reduces volume by 96% iirc). This fact gave space/systems with many water producing planets value and possibly even something to fight for. But I guess some shouting about “12 jumpfreighters of water” was listened to.
1 Like
“if there was ever been an existence as utterly unnecesary as the ccp dev team’s, it probably never existed to being with”
BTW, the argument of Exhumers. Where is the Exhumer buff that they make more ISK now?