Nope, 16 talos is the magic number to kill the orca fit my people use. Thats in .5. I forget exactly how many catalysts but its more than 30.
By solo, do you mean solo ship or solo player? Because an awful lot of gankers are solo players who multi-box…
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Solo ship. Who sits behind them don’t matter as much as what comes to grid.
Given that last night I filled my orca in 3.5 hours with a mix of veld, Scordite and pyrox and after compression the estimated value was 32mill I think you are underselling moon goo.
It doesn’t do any of us any good if people continue to overstate and exaggerate the problems. It just weakens the overall arguments and buries legitimate concerns.
Man you are way too priviledge acting like Isks doesn’t mean anything , just casually throwing out that at an instant notice you could freight 8-14 HACS anywhere for it to be ready to transfer to corp member to F sh*t up in that area. Okay… that’s alot of isks.
You want the same ability to be added to the rorqual cause why not right ? AFAIK about thr rorqual it’s already classified as an “unkillable capital” you want to make it even more so ? Great.
You have no issue being locked in place, your only concern is about not having combat ready ship inside of your SMB in case you need to defend yourself , and then proceed to add the line of “Honestly with all the intel channels around, that mining fleet will be docked up by the time someone shows up within 10 jumps of it regardless”.
This is just a fat kid wanting the whole chocolate cake and after eating that whole chocolate cake proceeds to ask for more.
The issue at hand is not if the SMB of rorq can carry fitted combat ship or not. It’s not about making Null Sec even easier (you got Crab sites last update , literally printing Isks at no risk no investment (once you get the dreads which was sitting in your station doing nothing for years btw)).
Stay on topic, it’s about the Nerf to mining drones , The rework of asteroids belts , addition of an industrial core (this one you might of missed cause rorq already had that) , compression wastage , mining wastage , fuel consumption of the industrial core , locked state by while in industrial config
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the ganking issue was more about the level of skill needed to be effective. a group of low skill pilots can take down a high skill boosting ship. additionally, the cost of the gank ships is very low, the cost of the orca is over 2 bil.
i think this is the model ccp is looking for, attract people who want to shoot things on a short training timeline and punish the players that invest in long term skills and expensive equipment.
i have several acount. my combat guys only have to train a narrow set of skills. my industrialists have multiple long term skill trees if they plan to mine, refine, reatact , pi , and buld ships
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@ Gerard Amatin
Yes. That would indeed be 2 accounts to mine less than your mining with one account currently.
Apparently math works differently in iceland
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@GAernir Ridley
Uh, im not sure which game your playing, but in the eve online im playing, 5 claymores is more effective than 1 and 4 ferox’s.
Mostly because the clyamore is way more expensive and skill intensive, and therefor has an edge over the t1 ferox… Hmm, almost like thats how ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK?@!?
With the Orca nerfs I’ll be be un subbing all of my accounts.
Industry changes make it so horrible to have a relaxed time mining in HS.
I get that not everyone is a miner but they are making it hard for people who do.
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next headline in pc gamer:
19.542 player destroy rookie ships for 399.69 dollar. such a massacre.
Ore hold, cargo, and fleet hangar slam full was ~40m of Brimful Zeolites. Brimful Bitumens was ~35m with just the ore hold slam full. I’m not exaggerating, they’re highsec moons that contain some of the key elements for faction sub production.
I just wanted to make a polite and reasonable suggestion that I think would benefit everyone, the developers and players of all stripes, in the long term.
Most moons are mined with Athanors and are not fit for refining. You take the ore to a Tatara to do the refining, often 7+ jumps away.
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I’ll start with the somewhat positive.
Mining waste, yes! Implementation, garbage! A good portion of the player base has asked for or suggested offensive mining over the years. However, making low skill players suffer from mining waste will create a stigma against low skill players hindering their ability to participate in certain kinds of mining. Remove waste except from offensive T1 module and offensive T2 crystal. Can we make wasted materials have a negative effect on the indy index? This will allow offensive mining to effect ADMs. Of course large alliances can try to use this but it will probably see a lot of use from small groups ninja mining the periphery of larger groups. Think darkside in geminate vs horde.
Compression on porp and orca is a cool idea but it needs to be instantaneous to make any sense. Compression module needs to be active with a cycle time, consumes fuel and possibly disallow warp. This will make it easier for new players to compress their ore while mining with and learning from more experienced and higher sp players. If this is the case the fleet hold should perhaps be a little bigger on porp.
I understand that you want to do a complete change to the rorq. First off games that have a reputation of getting their players to invest often significant amounts of real world $ into something and then nerfing it into the ground tend to lose the trust of the player base. At this point if you want to completely change the rorq you ought to offer players the chance to extract rorq skills as free sp. Otherwise you are guilty of a bait and switch and the players will remember. I understand rorqs were broken but that was your own fault for not listen to the CSM and players that told you so. They are not broken in their current state. Maybe they need a little adjustment but the risk/reward is already extremely high. If you want to completely repurpose them then reimburse the players for what you promised and then took away.
One of the big draws that keeps experienced players coming back to the game is the hunter vs hunted gameplay. Significant pieces in this have been the battle porp and battle proc. Under the current proposal the battle or bait proc will become non existent. Porps have low scan res as well as higher cost making them far less ideal. Before it was common to have a small mining operation use utility slots on procs filled with target painters, jams, scrams, webs, points, etc. These changes mean that procs will almost never be bait and will result in miners being more skittish. Miners always warping to tether instead of potentially staying on grid reduces content.
Along similar lines removing even more rorqs from the field in favor of exhumers will continue to reduce content. Unless there is something preventing them, exhumers can easily get off grid the moment a neut enters system. This favors botting and makes it very easy for bots to blend in. Currently the only effective way to catch exhumers and barges is if they think they can take on the neut (partially combat fit procs) or if you use a blue awox alt. While I am not for banning awoxing it generally creates a very strong negative experience for players. Creating a situation where the only way to hunt barges and exhumers is to use awox alts is not good for the overall player experience. This is already a problem but pushing more players into exhumers will exacerbate it. Perhaps a compression module could create a small warp disrupt range around the ship while active. This not only would introduce some risk to counter the exceptional reward that barges and exhumers get but could introduce other pvp options for porps and orcas. Consideration should be given for whether or not tractor beams should be allowed as a work around to keep the barges out of range and get their ore to the porp or not. i.e. balance warp disrupt range and tractor beam range accordingly. and perhaps disallow activation of compression module near certain deployables like MTU. Depending on compression module cycle time or time to burn away from the compressor and warp an attentive player should still have a good chance to get safe but it allows a proper risk/reward balance that is currently lacking.
One more note. In other games it is common to see fine balance changes, a little more hp here and little less resist there, etc. I don’t understand why but you guys like to make changes in massive unbalancing ways, 200% here, -400% there, half the mid slots are gone, etc. In a game as complex as Eve small changes still can have a massive effect and close or open many different game play options and uses. Changes at the level of doubling or halving end up with earth shattering results. The player base often talks about how people shouldn’t ask you for changes because the cure will be worse than the disease. This is a really bad reputation to have! Your players have lost all trust in your ability to fix problems because you don’t know how to titrate changes till you get the right result.
I want this game to continue on and I hope that you can learn to have more balanced responses.
I should add that everything that I’m not whining about is probably a positive change. So there is that.
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Even the CSM didnt realize that in order to build a t1 destroyer you still needed to mine both nullsec and low sec ores, wonder how well thats working out for the newbro indy pilot…
With compression changes being totally garbage, I wonder how much less of those ore’s are going to reach the highsec market hubs, and whats going to happen to the price of isogen now?
The value of velt, pyro, and scordite are actually pretty close to many of the high sec moon rocks (it works out to ~100 isk per m3), so it’s perfectly reasonable to be pulling close to the same isk/hr.
Orca , Porpoise , Rorqual:
Problems
- #1 Reducing the current (on SISI) Industrial Core Cycle from 5 mins to 2 minutes
- #2 Reducing the fuel cost of using the Industrial Core down to 100 units and 200 units per Tier (500,750 currently on SISI , if you reduce the cycle time you have to reduce the cost aswell. In a perfect world there would be no fuel consumption at all.)
- #3 You doubled the amount of Ores, You have Introduced Wastage. That’s equal to giving someone 10$ and cutting it in half: Here’s your 5$. but it’s now worthless cause it’s cut in half…
- #4 Increasing the amount of Ores in Asteroids you have also increased the size of the Asteroids, they are even more spread out than they were , Warping at 0km from a bookmark with an Orca means you will get bumped 80km away. Struggling to reach my destination on a slow boat is not what i consider “fun” nor “thrilling” aspect of gameplay.
Solution for #3 and #4
Remove the idea of the wastage mechanic , if you have to double something just to take it all back after that what is even the point of doubling ? If you are to be creating a new ressource out of the wastage then sure that’d be something else , might even be interesting, As for now since nothing is mention about a new ressource surrounding the wastage , as it’s stand it’s just here you mined 1000m3 i will now take half of it and delete it, here’s your “1000m3” proceeds to receive 500m3 instead. Boy will survey scanner have fun with that one.
As for the #4. Since warping from bookmark will be out of the question now, sitting at 0km in a belt means all the ores will be at 10km - 20km - 40km (furthest i’ve seen was 135km) the very slow Mining Drone will take 4 minutes (962m/s) to reach an asteroids at 70km before it can start mining (2 minutes cycle) and another 4 minutes to travel back and deposit. In it’s current state that’s 10 minutes 8 of which is wasted in travel time , that’s 2 Industrial Cycle (5 mins) wasted in travel time of the drone.
The Industrial Core should give a velocity boost to mining drone / ice mining drone of at least +200% velocity to accomodate. (that’d be 4 minutes TO and FROM combined and 2 minutes cycle) = 1 cycle and a half which is way more reasonable and it won’t affect global mining drone / ice mining drone since it will be tied to the Industrial Core.
Can you not make the effort to master your chosen career, and still ‘relax’?
Or did you mean ‘go AFK’?
My middle grandson has a toy truck of some sort. If it’s taken away from him he bawls fit to bust. If it is immediately replaced with a bar of Cadbury’s Whole Nut chocolate, he beams wonderfully.
I find it mildly amusing that many posters in this thread, having lost their toy, are demanding chocolate - and failing miserably at sounding reasonable about it.
I also note the comparative absence of the ganking community; no crowing, no sly digs. Can it be that we are more grown-up about your distress than AG have ever been when we were the target of the nerf-bat?
‘There May Be Trouble Ahead…’
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clearly you haven’t mine a single day in your EvE career.
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This is why my first reaction was, as soon as I saw the Excel sheet linked in the blog (yes, I know, spreadsheets in my space-spreadsheet game? PREPOSTEROUS!) my first thing to do was to figure out “Okay, here’s how waste is going to behave based on current values, here’s the ratios… okay.” It was to figure out what to at least expect out of it, rather than immediately jump to criticism.
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