From Extraction to Production

EVE Information Portal Announcements
, ,
1567

Hello Tsumi, thanks for your terse but helpful response.

It helps because it allows me to assert that I have indeed mined much.

An activity properly learned and executed becomes easier over time - even (in the case of mining) allowing for unbidden disturbances (Le Gank).

I used a Skiff and a few drones. Not a big-shot industrialist, I allow. But then, my ambitions are modest, for they are matched by my interests and limitations.

These proposed changes are - proposed changes. The vast majority of the playerbase seems not to think it necessary to come onto the forums and mewl about it.

All the best now.

1568

The protests are probably dead in the water. The upcoming changes are inevitable and they will implement them in one way or another. Maybe not with the exact numbers, but it could be something like T1 miners waste 1/8 instead of 1/2, 1 mid slot instead of 2 removed from the Proc and more hull HP than initially proposed, the mining drones might waste a bit less, but even if the numbers are tweaked these changes will be implemented in some form. If WoW is any indication, as long as 3-5 people react positively to a change, no amount of protests will prevent it’s implementation. At best we might get a rollback.

1 Like
1569

What i meant by that , i know it was short… Is your assomption of “mastering your chosen career” Translating as if you have decided which path you go on it mean you will have fun and engaging content to play with , having a nice time is therefor relaxing. And then proceeding with “or did you mean go AFK”

Mining is boring , i first joined EvE cause the mining aspect was unique and very interesting, but let’s be honest it’s very boring , you have to entertain yourself somehow , and looking at a movie / tv show / playing another game / watching a stream / youtube , while you are mining helps alot to reduce that bordom of mining. so one cannot go “Mining” without being somewhat “AFK” , the two are connected together.

Is what i meant by “clearly you haven’t mined a single day in your EvE career”

Hope that clears things out o7

1570

The vast majority of the playerbase may not know about it as yet. You may overestimate the assiduity with which many players read dev blogs… It is a tad pejorative to call reasoned feedback “mewling”. Also, whilst you call the changes “proposed”, that is not how CCP refers to them…

3 Likes
1571

compression on test server reveals the following.
small compression box gets loaded from covetor A (6,000 me) start compression? yes, no
if NO then covetor B deosnt have enough room to load into the box.
If yes, for the next minute no other covetors can load the box.
with boosts. and 3 covetors on the field, at no point can the 3 covetors empty their holds into the box and keep mining. they either have to empty to another hanger or can, or stop mininig.
and thats just with 3 covetors. the extra ore movement activities at some point impacts multiboxers.

the other discovery is that the boost ship pilot becomes heavily occupied with keeping everything flowing requirinig serous concentration (no we dont mine AFK) and this goes on for hours in most fleet mining ops.

if you really want the compression in space to work there cannot be a cycle time. and the box should be bigger

and all of this totally ignores the waste discussion or fuel consumption by the boost pilot.
also, not all mining ops are for the common use of materials, miners would not want to push their ore into a common can or ore hold and then have to sort out later who gets what ( mining ledger eye roll)

go back to the drawing board and find a better plan please

4 Likes
1572

Wait what? If you started with an average asteroid field of say… 70 asteroids each with it’s nearest neighbor being an average of 3 KM apart and the average 3rd nearest enighbor being say 3.5 KM away, then you dump 70 more asteroids and keep those other two parameters the same, you’ll just end up with a belt taking more area. But since the distance from one asteroid to another is unchanged, you can still just slowly eat the belt from one side to another without worrying about time wasted. It’s only when you don’t have 4 rocks within 2 km of the Orca that you have a problem, because to get to the nearest rock you’d have to go in a “dead zone” far away from asteroids. So even if the total belt area is bigger, you shouldn’t lose efficiency slowboating as you eat the belt as long as the asteroids are still as close to each other as they used to be.

Edit: I was completely wrong on the way this was implemented Tsumi was right

1573

The changes are upcoming they’re not proposed. they’re just tweaking the numbers.

1574

We figured out how to min max the new rules on day 1: 2 post-patch Hulks = 1 current Rorq. So you keep 1 Rorq pilot in the Rorq. Put every other Rorq Pilot in Exumers. Sub N - 1 (where N = the number of Rorq pilots you currently have) additional accounts to put in Exumers. Where we take issue is that we have to give CCP N - 1 additional Omega accounts and deal with absurd numbers of active clients to avoid loosing our revenue. Or we could accept being poor. Or dedicate all of our non-working time to mining. All are ■■■■ options for miners. I’m pretty sure the strategic goal here is to return to an era where mining requires 10 accounts to be profitable. I’m also pretty sure no one will willingly accept the quality of life (in game and out of game) hit these changes will bring.

6 Likes
1575

My point entirely. They will change the odd number here or there, then declare, “See, we did listen…”

1 Like
1576

Vortigen, of course, reasoned feedback is not ‘mewling’. I wished only to draw attention to the unreasoned feedback - of which there is much.

But I do detect - even among the Reasonables - a whiff of barely suppressed outrage, which I shall try to understand in an empathetic way.

Carry on…

2 Likes
1577

I get it, Tsumi. Thanks for the explanation.

1578

A Skiff is (currently) a lot tankier. But then the base hull is something like 6x the price. That’s a lot of slightly less tanky Procurers I can lose before I’ve reached the initial cost of a single Skiff (which although it technically mines more, is a much bigger target, and leaves me with a LOT of ore to mine before I’ve broken even even before I consider losses).

1 Like
1579

Nope , let me show you a screenshot of what the belts looks like on SISI.

__SiSI_belts
__SiSI_belts1728×1077 110 KB

they all look like this now , at least in High Sec, they are so spread out , they are HUGE you cannot warp to bookmark with this , unless you spend an absurd amount of time with a fast ship to make the perfect multiple bookmark around each belts. as you can see there is no “Left to right” like you used to on Tranq

giving a HUGE boost to Ice harvester / mining drones velocity while using the Industrial Core would solve that issue , i’m talking of at least a +200% to those drones velocity to compensate

You are locked in place for (5 minutes) currently on SISI because if you want to get your drone mining yield bonus you have to use the Industrial Core, so no “slow boating” between roids relocating for your next series of roids to mine.

1 Like
1580

Also, if we are going to have mining waste, we need GARBAGE SKOWS (with bonuses for reprocessing waste) too.

1581

Just wondering what is going to happen to the BPOs for crystals, since those have changed as well. Will we just lose out of our spent ISK or will we get reimbursed. I just spent a good deal of ISK for those BPOs.

1582

BPOs and crystals will be converted to A Type BPOs and crystals (there’s going to be an absurd overstock of both). The ore crystal changes is the unique part of the changes that is good.

1 Like
1583

Is there a way to add back some of the Porpoise’s drone mining yield bonus please? The yield from the porpoise was already lower than the barges or an Orca before, and was just supplementary to the rest of the mining fleet. Now it’s just equivalent to a starter venture.

Even a vexor has 10% mining yield bonus.

3 Likes
1584

cool and I agree. it was a pain as to how many crystal we have to haul around to do some decent mining.

1585

Sorry sir, we were always told, if not assured, that all PLEX on the New Eden market was bought with real cash via your website, then sold on the New Eden market for ISK. Unless CCP actually injects PLEX out of nowhere into the market (which to my understanding only happened a few times in history), all PLEX was originally bought with real cash.

While sell prices do indeed go down when supply goes up (and much less is kept in inventories because of less reason to speculate), the reverse is true when supply diminishes. Your intended (not proposed) changes will lead to a decreased supply (double sized asteroids yes, but lower yield even with max skills and boosts, more man hours to do the same amount of mining, supply chain issues etc) and drive up the prices again.

I agree fully that the roles of rorquals and orcas needed to be re-designed. However, there was no visible need to take a bat swing at barges and exhumers, and certainly not the mining frigates. They all have their niche and you pretty much destroyed it in your upcoming changes. Giving gas mining bonuses to ships that even have issues dealing with rats, and hoping they will venture into the most dangerous parts of the space is idle hope if not taking out more game play. Personally I don’t care as much about hard numbers and how they are distributed as I do about having fun in the game, even with a boring activity like mining. Reducing the ships’ scope does exactly that: reduce the fun overall.

In other words, the solo miner, and especially the newer player makes far less and it takes longer for the same net amount. Even the non solo miner will need more strip miners in the belt or on the chunk to harvest a similar amount and it will take longer, not to mention the crazy amounts of time it takes to compress. Someone’s spreadsheet has errors. Perhaps it isn’t easy to fully appreciate the importance of providing fun to solo players, the changes to mineral distribution already show that. There’s a lot of fun to be had from being able to do at least some basic t1 ship building, including the mining of the minerals, by one’s self. Not everything has to be map spanning and interdependent or co-work, that’s where some of us disagree with a major part of your approach. Even the silliest t1 frig requires lowsec minerals, after you took out all the hisec anoms. It doesn’t help anyone, it makes entry into indy/manuf a bigger issue than it should be.

I understand the PL associated CSM member had his campaign on simplifying the mining crystals, for whatever personal and questionable appreciation he may have had. Introducing a waste mechanic is gratuitous. Expecting people to pay at least 300M ISK per ORE strip miner to avoid at least that part of the new waste mechanic… I can hear you chuckle…

So, end of scarcity ? No, not really. It’s the start of increased tedium. But that’s just my opinion, and I’m not even into mining - I mine to build a few ships for my own use, and I don’t like what I see coming.

With respect.

8 Likes
1586

Faction Strip miners were going for 210 million isk in Dodixie before this started. So miners would need to spend +400 million per ship to take advantage of the zero waste process. Ballparking the math it will take 154 hours mining to recoup your investment. If you compress you go up into the 170’s.

Now the cost of Strip Miners is 50% higher…you do the math.

2 Likes