Does add a nice new feature to an future wars, why loose $$$$ ship when a fleet of ventures can just kill their industry base by destroying their high value mining resources! 
While I do see its uses, I still think its a bug.
May need a few others with different setups and skills try and see what tge outcome will be.
More data better facts.
As you say could be a bug.
Hmmm I just lost an orca trying to grab some r4 while it still has mex and pye inside:
zKillboard is listing 1.8 bil isk for the ship only.
The non-insured orcaâs insurance payout is 160M , which, according to CCP is 40% of the cost of the materials required to build an orca: Insurance â EVE Online
So I guess that the Orcaâs input materials and PI is supposed to be 400M isk? Turning 400M input materials into 1.8M ship on a popular hull sure would be good income. Last time i tried though, it was more like 2B isk in materials/pi, so the assembly of the orca was isk negative.
I have data for our moons. You can also just fly around to see how many Tataras are at moons (I donât remember seeing any).
You can calculate the fuel savings of Athanors over Tataras yourself, but hereâs the difference in refining efficiency: 1-2% in Null. The way you min max your infrastructure is to field Athanors for mining, Tataras for reactions and refining. If youâre refining in Athanors, youâre leaving Isk on the table.
400m was Orca price approx 10 years ago. They never adjusted it
3 Likes
I wonder if there could be an industrial equivalent of the assault damage control for mining ships in lieu of permanent tank? Something that wouldnât mess up a small gangs ability to kill a ship provided they have tackle and enough dps, but could give a time buffer for gank attempts in HS or the like. If you were afk it wouldnât do anything but it might give concord time to respond in HS or time to warp in a response fleet in LS/NS/WH. I think 8-10 seconds of reduced incoming damage would make things interesting.
I know catalyst multiboxer fleets are a play style for some but Iâm not sure their gameplay benefits Eve. I feel like ganking this way should be possible but not profitable.
I havenât HS mined in years so maybe just ignore.
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Hull Tanked Orcas are already very tanky, and hull tank barely consumes cpu or powergrid. Assuming 600 dps per coercer, you need more then 20 coercers to clap one before youâre concorded.
You see why CCP is giving you rewards for creating alts until the 40th alt, right 
the video you are looking for can be found at Rorquals In The Age of Prosperity. It was published on reddit here
3 Likes
Good Evening!
I would like to offer my humble opinion - a High Sec PvE carebear - who also just had a baby and has to play games one-handed. Guess what game I can turn to?
Itâs just great luck that I love solo mining in my Orca in High Sec belts.
I am having fun playing a video game.
I worked hard on the goal of min-maxing what I could do with that Orca - including skilling all of the support skills to V and all the Drone skills. A lot of time was spent both in Training and actual research into all the industry mechanics in the game.
One of my favorite things that happens is when a Newbro lands on my grid - I try to invite them to a fleet and provide them free buffs. I get to talk to new players, answer questions, and hopefully send them to the right part of space they would thrive in. I try to make sure that they know that Venture mining in a 0.7 is really not going to make them any ISK.
You know what I did with my 10m/hour? (yes, 10 million ISK per hour! And I have perfect reprocessing). Before the nerf to High Sec materials, I would make Frigates and Destroyers to hand out for free to new players - sometimes a cruiser or 2 as we would use a Noise filament to yeet into Null. After that removal of all but 3 minerals from High Sec, I started trading for the few missing materials we needed.
On SiSi⌠I have no reason to even undock. I can get more materials farming L4âs in my Kronos and reprocessing modules (in before CCP nerfs that, itâs only an extra 2-3m ISK!).
Lastly, I try to get new players into EVE constantly. I really like those recruit-a-friend bonuses and want to reach the next benchmark, but I just canât hit it. Had some new co-workers interested⌠but why would I continue to recommend a game that keeps adding hurdles for new players? So CCP can sell âexpertâ systems? I get PLEX - skins and an ISK cushion is fine, but Iâm not helping you sell a SUBSCRIPTION game that is also becoming more of a microtransaction-based browser game.
Magic 14, Magic 17 if you want to trade, Magic 25 if you want to mineâŚ
*IF the Rorq/Orca changes remain - then provide a refund of those skills
*In fact, with such a HUGE change to Industry - ALL Industry-related skills should be refunded.
*Remove the Waste mechanic from Mining
*Remove the Compression modules/fuel/time mechanic
*Do not completely remove the Mining Drone bonuses from the Rorq/Orca
*ACTUALLY RE-WORK MINING SHIPS and MAKE MORE SHIPS
Players have provided thousands of ideas - Triglavian mining ships - Dreadnought level industrial command ships - T2 Titans - Bomber Battleships - T3 ANYTHING
Thank you for reading, will answer questions or clarify points.
10 Likes
Removed some inappropriate posts and posts related to it.
True Carebears live in null
Reprocessing in highsec should be avoided. Even if you have perfect reprocessing skills, a freshly created capsuleer with no reproc skills whatsoever will out-reproc you in his t2 rigged nullsec Tatara. If youâre looking for ISK, try compressing the ores and selling the compressed ore. If youâre looking for materials, sell the compressed ores and with the ISK you get from the sale, buy minerals fin return. Sounds stupid, and is stupid.
Note that loot reproc is 50% no matter where you do it, and the only way to improve this is to skill up Scrap Metal Reprocessing. In highsec, you can usually even reproc loot more efficiently then in (non-npc) null, because NPC corporations with a standing of 7 or higher will not charge you for reprocessing in their stations, while null corps usually charge their members - and they usually charge considerably more then the NPC corps. With crappy NPC corp standings, just reproc at a highsec refinery. They have lower reproc fees then in null, because, unlike in null, there is competition in high.
In terms of manufacturing income, Iâd guess producing modules is better then producing ships. Many modules sell 50% over their material price, 100% over it isnât too rare either.
I had the impression lvl4 missions were actually pretty nice, but I havenât run them for a while now⌠I assume they got nerfed, cause the EoM sites and the Worlds Collide mission were dropping really nice amounts of loot, like 20~50M in loot per run.
Nullsec anomalities and signatures, whether lvl4 or lvl5 are not only super-boring (and way more repetitive then highsec missions) but also barely drop loot these days, either. Some sites have a chance to spawn a commander NPC that has a chance to drop a green module, but most times the commander doesnât spawn or it doesnât drop anything. Escallations are better in terms of green/blue drops, but the generic loot that goes into the reproc barely drops there, either.
Moko, your information is awesome, correct, and helpful!
However, I do know about using refineries, and I have Scrap Metal at 5.
My point was that the ISK is so low - that to lower it even further, makes it more than pointless.
Also, if you guys havenât checked SISI, they arenât belts anymore, they are balls of rocks - which is kind of okay I guess.
Side shout out for the patch - the Simulation window got some nice improvements!
I would love a covert porp.
Just put a mining foreman on a logi t3c with covops subsystem. You can add Command Processor rigs if you want multiple foreman bursts, the t3c is more agile then a porpoise, and it can have comparable tank.
That said, I think thereâs too much cloaky stuff in eve
Covert ops cloak or invisible on dscan like a recon ship? Dscan invisible miners would be a lot more interesting.
2 Likes
High sec moon mining is murdered with the changes to R4 and below
the value of a sample I took is cut by about 6.5x
Glistening Zeolites x 21586 worth approx 97m on evepraisal
Glistening Zeolites x 21586 worth approx 17m reprocessed @ 70% on test server
So basically Mining this with the new hulk with a T2 Type B crystal, 2 mining laser enhancers with max skills on a rare spawn of 200% moon rocks. you make like 10m an hour. MUCH WOW
1 Like
The frigates are rather easy to scale with alts. In terms of wormhole mass calculations and restrictions, barges are a better way to go at least for bonuses toward the gas economy.
Iâd rather see mining frigates lose most of their gas harvesting bonuses and instead get a recon role bonus like dscan immunity (you canât cloak in a cloud). More unique role that wayâparticularly if Ventures were invisible on dscan.
Thanks but no thanks. If you want to prevent people from mining wormhole gas, camp the sites but donât make it impossible for people to mine gas anywhere unless they are super organized. A Prospect without the gas bonuses is worthless because it needs over 2.5 hours to fill 1 gas hold without the bonus and the newly increased gas hold. With the low prices for gas, this is a waste of time. Plus, moving a Prospect is at least possible in null sec and wormholes without requiring tons of alts or other people to check systems before you jump a gate because gas mining requires lots of movement compared to ore mining. You have at least a chance to get away from a dictor. In a barge or exhumer, you are a sitting duck and that for no good reason and without any compensation for the added risk.
Breaking a well working ship just so that people switch to barges and exhumers which are wholly unsuitable for this activity (and will be even more so with the changes to their fitting and slots), is not good development practice. Giving the exhumers a slight edge over the Prospect is fine. It will make people use it for gas mining where itâs feasible for them and that makes them a good target. Prospects will be used in other places and situations where exhumers are infeasible.
So after getting in some actual comparisons I have a few honest comments and concerns.
First off is that there is definitely a net mining speed increase for every hull but the Rorqual. Of this I approve greatly.
The Barges and Exhumers as a whole lack some basic practices of eve fitting and I personally feel it would go a long way in updating them. These two classes of ships have both the fitting stats and slot layout of frigates, while also being as slow as cruisers and not nearly as survivable, save for the proc and skiff, which only achieve this through pure hit-points on the hull. Increasing the base stats to more resemble cruisers would be a huge step up for usability and normal fitting practices to apply. The ships would still end up gankable, but it wouldnât be or feel as trivial as it currently is.
I noticed on sisi and have concerns that there might not be any B and C type crystals for Moon ore crystals coming? If this is so it is a major disappointment as R4 is currently one of the major choke points in industry and while the rest of the buffs will help, the 20% speed bonus tied onto the B types will go a very long way.
The removal of Pyrite and Mexallon in R4 ore is certainly disappointing as while ore which contains it can be found in every region, it doesnât âfeelâ at least to me from experience, that it comes in the quantities needed for large scale production of BS and Capitals. Numbers proving otherwise would be nice as it doesnât really feel necessary to remove it at this time, especially if we donât receive B type crystals for R4 ore as noted above.
The waste system and doubling ore is in my opinion poorly worded in the dev blog, but the end goal is honestly quite brilliant. I really look forward to this part.
Finally the separation of oreholds into Ore Gas and Ice is honestly silly as they all could fit just fine into them before and would go straight from miner to bay. Increase the overall size a little bit for the increase in yield and call it a day.
If this shipped tomorrow I know myself and a lot of corpmates would be happy with it, but that doesnât mean itâs perfect or couldnât be improved. Keep up the good work and I hope we hear back from you soon.
4 Likes