This was one of the first concerns on paper when I hear of this “wonderous waste” change.
@CCP_Swift @CCP_Rattati @CCP_Psych
First and foremost, Thank you for your time in reading and replying to our concerns. Most of it has been encouraging. Especially want to say thanks for adding the skill books to SISi markets, made testing so much easier.
With the announcement about a new dev blog on Friday, I wanted to give some feed back before you hit Post and run out the door for the weekend, again.
Nerfing rorqs off the field means a lot more than unhappy miners, this directly equates to less targets in space so less things to do for the entire server. About 75% of the pings I see are either Rorq to kill or Rorq to Save. If you nerf Rorq’s to the point they are not worth risking, people will not risk them. End of story. There is nothing in this patch to replace the PVP that would be lost. I think if we looked closer to 50% nerf instead of 72% nerf to the rorq’s mining ability; they would remain viable enough as a mining platform that they would remain on field and thus remain as content generators.
Waste is, I think, an interesting concept, but is a negative gameplay aspect in a patch publicized and anticipated as being “the beginning of the end of scarcity.” It just does not fit in that narrative. Furthermore, as it is, it is a regressive mechanic that harshly penalizes newer and lower skilled players. It can be done better but again this is not the patch to do it in.
Compression - This honestly is one of the most frustrating design/concept elements of the entire patch. CCP simplified crystals, refining skills yet added a ridiculously complicated system in the form of multiple compression modules. Please remember the first rule of coding, K.I.S.S. and keep in mind people play this game to have fun not develop carpal tunnel syndrome. The same thing could be accomplished in a much simpler and easier to understand way.
- T1 and t2 version for each type of module (Ice, Gas, Belt ore, Moon Ore)
- Compression Hold. Used instead of Main cargo hold to compress
- Scripts, adjust what you can compress, module cycle time, size of the compression hold and would add a cost to compress via the materials to build the script.
A system like this could add even more to the gameplay than just having a bunch of compression guns.
- Production and market gameplay for the scripts
- Have scripts use build requirements that facilitate trade. Ore scripts need Ice products, ice scripts need moon goo, moon scripts need gas, Gas scripts need ore.
I hope this helps you see where my, and hopefully others, frustration with these aspects of the patch come from.
6 Likes
This patch is a absolut low point in the histoy of eve.
Things i like boni to boost for rorqual and orca so that they are more of a mining command ship then a solo miner. (we wane be postiv here and all)
unfortantly the other things must be a bad joke where the only employee who knew it was a joke was sick that day so it got taken for a actual idea for a patch.
Mining barges sure make the only usable mining barge in high sec useless (as in people where not using the covetor and the retriver cause they are Way to easy to gank) you took that with that patch and went oh they are easy to gank well make them all easy to gank that will solve that.
Exhumers 300 mio ships atm pretty much the same problem as in their t1 counter part but even more extreme
Compressing: sure only the rorquals can compress moon ore let my undock mine from jita and take the two gates over to where i min my moon goo.
Compression as a whole like it was put forward sure make it so you can compress at a speed where a single mining barge overlaods your compression abilty cause spoiler you need 3 orcas now to support a singel hulk for comprassion allone.
Expeditin frigates nobody complained about them they where pretty much fine might the rospect a bit better yeild so its better then the ventur for gass huffing but no just go ahead make them uselsess cause only new players fly them so on that point also new players will be flying piss poor tanked t1 barges and be ganked in droves.
grifer minig crystals do i even need to mention that people will abuse it i thought you learned that in 15 years but here we go again.
give the other mining barges more mids good leave the procurer alone same for skiff and his companions.
expedition frigates pretty much said already
compression make it a inherent abilty of the industrial mining comand ship to compress all gass ice moon ore and normal ore also no cycle time (i guess if it has to be with los then that is it but dont time gate us like some korean moba game on something that is already time gated to beginn with)
also dont even think about making that compression thing a module as in stealth nerf the orcas tank cause resis nerf + industry changes + damage buff where not alread enough for the ship.
2 Likes
Just a thought experiment here, but I have a job and am good at it. One of the things we do is consider:
“if we just change nothing, is that better than the proposed change?” In this case, with the exception of the mining crystal changes, yes changing nothing is a better option (I’d give you a nod for halving the PI for BS+, but that was a self-inflicted wound in the first place and PI is a terrible mechanic that should’ve been re-worked years ago). If nothing is the better option, you know your plan is bad. This plan is bad, and you knew it was bad because you’re not dumb and the CSM told you it was bad. I’m pretty sure it was worse and you worked with the CSM to make it less terrible, but polishing a turd only gives you shinier feces. Come back with a plan that isn’t terrible and doesn’t make the game less fun. You have smart people working for you. Pretty sure one of them can find a way to fix the economy without pissing off your player base.
8 Likes
try using an off spec C2, its fun.
How about we use the likes on replies to this thread as a benchmark for how well they’re liked? So if a reply saying “the part of the patch X” is liked by 30 people, it should carry more weight than a reply that’s like “stop caring about bitter vets” with 3 likes (very patronizing as if I can’t do the math myself on what a T1 venture will do to moon rocks). Of course only Omega likes should be counted, but they should be able to tell who liked which post. Then CCP can use this benchmark to see if the patch should be implemented as is, with some numbers tweaks, or maybe not at all?
CCP makes more money from multiboxers that PLEX their accounts than from singleboxers or multiboxers that sub their accounts. 500 PLEX always cost 19,90, subscriptions go as low as 10,95 per month.
That is a fun request and even more funny if you consider CCP’s trackrecord of actually being able to enforce such a rule. There were times when it was ridiculously easy to even multibox alpha accounts, which were always restricted to 1 per computer. Rules like that in a game like EVE only mean that people with enough technical knowledge have an advantage over those who don’t.
1 Like
It’s buried somewhere in the deluge but they’ve said missions will be addressed.
yup, VirtualBox is free - and now they have the browser-based version of the Eve Client as well.
Check the first post. CCP_Psych’s first comprehensive response to raised issues is linked there.
Thank god someone finally said this! Eliminating multi boxing will solve almost of your issues. Want to know why you can’t retain new players? Every time I tell Someone they will need to multibox to fly caps, mine, run abyssal, use a JF, and pretty much everything else, they run for the hills.
This would fix:
Bottling
New player retention
Infinite scalability of mining
Encourage social interaction
…and so much more.
None of these mining changes matter when I can just run more barges…
In a few years you’ll be right back in this boat trying to nerf bat multiboxers and making everyone howl.
Do something about multiboxing and your troubles will fade into the distance.
5 Likes
I can clear a Merc belt in Null and make 1b isk in a day with 2 characters. A boost and a cov. If I add an additional account / char, I don’t need another boost, I have then increased that 1b to 1.5 - 2b in one day… In 2 days, I take 1.5b and buy 500 plex off Jita and that 2nd account was just paid for, for the next 30 days. I don’t think you are seeing the point of my post. Large multi boxers have no need to buy 500 plex from CCP because they can buy it from the market and never pay a dime to CCP for the subscription. So now, you say, “well, someone has to buy it from CCP and put it on the market” which is true, but considering the fact that over 18 years, there have been enough buildup of plex in inventories, any plex that you see on the market could be plex that was purchased 10 years ago…
Again, I know my view is controversial. But I will say this… it’s 2021, almost 2022. Eve released in 2003. If you cannot figure out the code to stop multiple clients from running, but allow one client to open 3 sessions for 3 different characters, in 2021, you really should review your coders capabilities. It’s not rocket science… and they have proven they can do it because I cannot load an alpha account with my omega account at this point on 1 PC. If that happens, break EULA and perma ban, no questions asked…
Most people that will argue against this, are those who run 20 accounts, but MAYBE pay for 1 of those 20 accounts with a subscription service and the other 19 just buy the plex at Jita to extend the playtime.
1 Like
Sorry, but this is wrong. In order for PLEX to be on the market SOMEONE has to buy it with real cash and seed it there. I also hate multiboxing, even though I do it myself (can’t beat 'em - join 'em kinda thing). Either way CCP wins. My overwhelming fear is that, even though I hate it, without it the game would die, as CCP probably wouldn’t make enough in order to sustain itself. This game is awesome, but one glance at the concurrent player count will show you that it’s not really super profitable.
Ahm, you are under a misconception here. Every single PLEX on the market was bought buy someone from CCP. If you PLEX your account with ISK, CCP has already gotten those 19.90 from someone. There is no “I don’t need to pay CCP any money if I PLEX”. CCP always gets money if you are Omega.
Try VM and VPNs. Not that I want to encourage you to break the EULA and TOS and maybe CCP actually managed to fix all the issue that allowed people to abuse multi-login with alphas, which would be good.
2 Likes
The issue with this statement is that one, you are correct, it needs to be seeded, BUT, you don’t know the age of that PLEX you are purchasing. It could be 1 month old, it could be 10 years old. You may or may not remember, but there used to be a promotion that ran, that if you put in a referral code, you could get a plex and CCP would send a plex to the referral. This allowed Mega corps to stockpile PLEX (which at the time was 1 plex = 1 month of playtime) for free. Didn’t cost anything additional because the PLEX was gifted by CCP as a referral. This created a massive PLEX stockpile within the game. So once it was converted to 500 plex instead of 1, now you have corps / characters with MASSIVE amounts of plex that can control / manipulate the Plex market at will… again you don’t know the age of that PLEX you are buying, only that it was needed to be purchased to be seeded, but I would advise to look back through all the sales through the years on plex.
That’s why I mentioned that it would be very controversial and take a while to balance out. But if Eve is reaching over 1 MILLION new players every single year… Where are they going? We range from 18k-30k users online at any given time? Why not 200k or 400k? Maybe, just maybe, those players would stick around if we didn’t have to cut off their legs at making isk for ships because we are trying to contain the multiboxers taking advantage of those ISK faucets.
3 Likes
What has that got to do with building destroyers or compression?
Have you forgotten what you were saying?
I’m seeing more than one complaint about new aggressive fit options for ‘mining ships’ in some places I frequent… frankly, I love that particular aspect of the new updates most. Let them keep these new teeth that they have on the test, so that the unweary or unprepared will have to work for their food or die. @CCP_Rattati @CCP_Psych
so you do realize 1 pays with a subscritpion and the ohter 19 he also pays with a subscritpion as its clear you dont know how plex works.
I am sorry if this question has been asked and answered before. I would like to know if mining waste counts towards ADM?
Before replying with this, I wish you could have read the replies earlier where this has already been clarified. Yes, I know exactly how plex works, stop trying to be condescending in a legitimate conversation.
As I pointed out before, yes, every PLEX must be seeded which means it has been purchased from CCP. But again, let me point out, you have no idea WHEN that Plex was purchased. It could have been yesterday or 10 years ago, you don’t know… so maybe, that seeded purchase was a $20 dollar purchase in 2013… CCP sure is raking in the cash 8 years AFTER the Plex was purchased…
You clearly don’t know that there have been, what we call, sales, over the past 18 years that have allowed the purchase of buy one, get one free… or referral links that allow you to send a free plex to another character when you subscribe… those are FREE plex that CCP has seeded into the game… Not every plex you see on the market is because someone put in their account info and bought it.
Again, please read the reply string before making redundant arguments that have already been addressed. It clutters the legitimate conversation.
2 Likes