I do hope you realize the buffs to the hulks make up for the nerf to the rorqual right? Assuming you use 2 eyes out, 1 rorqual pilot, 1 hauler, that leaves you with 7 hulks. Those hulks with the rorqual buff will be at least twice as effective after the patch while mining asteroid or ore. A rorqual right now is worth about 5 bulks, post patch about 1 hulk worth of mining. So that means you effectively gain 3 hulks worth of mining post patch. So you are in a good spot?
sounds like you are better off than you ever have been, not sure you know what it is you do if you cant see that
In my life before EVE i was a software development project manager. we NEVER invested developer man hours into coding something before at least putting a âstrawmanâ idea out to our clients to provide feedback on the concept. It made far more sense to understand our customer before we invested time in code and a test environment. As a result, our work was generally accepted and required fewer do overs. Perhaps CCP should consider this model for future large journeys.
We also had a CSM like body to consult with. and , like the CSM they had NDA requirements. however, we listened to their input and also considered whether they were from some of our largest clients or smaller business units. they obviously had different agendas that needed to be considered. Although a number of people have suggested i run for CSM, i decided against it because of the NDA and limitiations placed on them.
I hope CCP finds its way to a better mechanism for developing major changes in the game. the last few years have been horrible by any standard i have seen used in software development
2 Likes
CCP please revisit your mineral removal from Moon Ore idea as the way it is currently proposed will make it uneconomic to mine R4 Moons
Increase in moon goo supply = drop in price = lose revenue
General waste %'s = lose revenue.
Loss of minerals without offset = lose revenue
You need have a hard look at the economics of this mineral removal as it makes R4 moons very problematic ISK wise.
4 Likes
It hits super hard, it also will make pyerite harder to get as R4 is by far the best source of pyerite⌠Letâs hope CCP listens to some of the feedback at least
2 Likes
I would like to start my reply with commending CCP for doing the much needed changes to the mining gameplay.
Secondly i think the percentages of mining lasers need some filing. Specialy 0% waste with the Ore mining lasers is rediculous. Also rorqual drones could get little bit more efficiency, you could compensate it by adding additional materials to build them so they get more expensive, to add value in losing them.
Thirdly i would like to suggest adding some tools to enhance the Industrial command ship gameplay. Specificly some sort of log tool for the Rorqual/Orca/porp pilot to see who deposits materials to their Fleet hangar. This would add to the Mining Foreman type of gameplay where the Mining Foreman could manage peoples ore/ice/gas. It would be very handy tool for corporations and alliances to organize their mining operations and hand out miners cut or take tax or what ever is their thing. Lets face it, the Mining Ledgers are very inaccurate if Mining Foreman is switched or there are multiple on grid that accepts everyones stuff.
I sense a liar
1 Like
You need to load ore into main cargohold, then into module, it doesnât accept loading from anywhere else.
But you canât have your main cargohold full, or it would also not let you load. No fuel or industrial core needed.
So just get 15000 m3 into main cargohold and load module from there.
Better off in the sense that I already have 6 exhumer V trained pilots, and at least one pilot almost fully trained in each of reactions, production, hacking (for data cores), etc. Yea, I mean Iâm perfectly set up to KEEP doing that if I want. But I already sold 4 additional exhumer V pilots (yes I was running 15 accounts previously). I have been trying to minimize the amount of pilots I am maintaining. I am at the point where 6 are almost trained enough to do everything I want to do, one rorqual/orca pilot, 4 barge/exhumer pilots, and a scout. So yea, this rorqual nerf almost cuts my yield in half, unless I want to bring in more exhumer pilots back into the fray. But that is the opposite direction I was trying to go in, so do you see my point? Yes ALL of this is excessive, but that is what I loved about this game. The fact that I could do this and not get banned was/is a huge reason why I play this game.
1 Like
No it doesnât, because all of your exhumer pilots now have substantially more yield than they did before, and if you go covetor or hulk, far more range to allow you to not move. you have better mining capacity than you did before, and more ore/ice/good available to mine.
I think youâre missing a lot of details in the waste mechanics, the compression loss, and everything else. With that factored in, the buffs arenât THAT significant to the exhumers individually, unless I want to roll out hulks with faction lasers that are putting each one of those ships at over a billion isk, sure yea with boosts I can mine more in that case. My rorq currently mines equivalent to roughly what like 3 coveys or 2.5 hulks or something like that? Not sure exactly what the math is, but taking the rorq yield itself out of the picture puts me at 6 coveys or 5 hulks for the same yield. Not exactly in the direction I was trying to go, and effectively cuts my yield unless I roll out more.
And being in NS a bad rat spawn will alpha any one of them off the field in seconds, sometimes before I can warp them off. Hence why I use covetors. I could opt to use skiffs so Im not losing them but take a hit in yield .
Youâve posted this several times in this thread and it reads like a conspiracy theory.
-
The plex referral code must have been years ago as Iâve never heard of it before.
-
CCP almost certainly donât track an individual plex through time, they will almost certainly be way more worried about the amount of unredeemed plex in the game at any one time.
-
The amount of unredeemed plex will be controlled by CCP through the use of sales and offers, reduced plex prices will increase the supply while offers in the nes will result in decreased supply.
-
Therefore any talk about how plex was spawned through a referral code years ago is unnecessary as this would have been accounted for by CCP years ago, all that matters is that the incoming plex sales are sufficient to support the company today.
-
Bringing up the conversion of 1 old plex to 500 new plex is smoke and mirrors. 1 old plex was a month of game time, 500 new plex is a month of game time. It matters not. Neither does in game manipulation of plex prices - the isk value of plex does not change the fact that someone bought it from CCP.
1 Like
I factored the Isk/hr on the value of the goo after refining, not the value of the ore. Goo is already compressed compared to ore. If goo increases in value, itâll be from people not mining it not any âbuffâ from these changes.
Iâm not missing any details in the waste mechanics. Are you?
T2 miners have a waste probability of 34% - let me do the math, 100% minus 34% is 66% volume increase. Even if you use T2 type B crystals to increase your yield over time, your waste probability is 64%, which leaves you with a 36% volume increase. For nearly everything. With a maximum compression loss of 10%, you are at worst, getting 26% more ore, but doing it in far less time. If you tell me you are concerned about a 34% decrease in the amount if bistot and arkonor, I am going to tell you I do not believe you.
and barge and exhumer buffs not that much? they buffs are BEYOND staggering. Hulks and covetors will have something like a 60 kilometer range of strip miners, which that alone without any other yield increased would be a significant buff from being able to stay on grid longer.
Being in NS, I have never lost a hulk to an NPC spawn with only an orca with medium shield boosters to keep my fleet alive, and have lost maybe 2 covetors, on which I fit zero tank, because I wasnât paying attention - but then thatâs not really a valid argument either since all the squishy tank barges and exhumers are getting ehp increases and mass reductions that will allow them to get off grid faster.
You can admit it you know, that the only thing that makes you happy is looking for something to be unhappy about.
1 Like
Bro, no need to slip in the digs at the end, Iâm not unhappy nor am I looking for something to complain about. Iâm just annoyed that even with barges and exhumers buffs the answer now is STILL just bring out more barges or exhumers to accommodate what is lost to the rorqual nerfs. They are saying in order for ME personally, to maintain the same yield, I have to have more toons. And with a rorqual still on the field I am now risking even more.
Lets just step back for a second and talk about your math⌠perhaps I am misunderstanding something where is this 100% baseline coming from? I understand they are increasing the amount of ore by 2x, which I assume is where your 100% is coming from, but that is just overall quantity, youâre not starting at 100% more yield and working down from there. There is just 2x the total quantity. If I am misunderstanding something I am open to being corrected (no need to be a dick about it). But therein lays a large part of the problem with this patch they either simply arenât explaining it well enough or they are intentionally making it more complicated and leaving out details to conceal other motives.
The range has been largely irrelevant to me up to this point as by the time I mine everything in range currently with boosts the ore hold is full, so with compression that keeps me out in the field a little longer if Iâm willing to accept the compression loss. I actually use the ore to build, I donât just sell it, so pure isk/hr is less important to me, the quantity that I am taking back is more so. And I am not even remotely talking about ark and bistot, this is 100% moon mining here, at least as far as the rorqual is concerned. I will typically roll out just a porp on the anoms because they are so small they are gone in a cycle or two.
As far as losing exhumers/barges on the field, yea I acknowledge that rarely happens, as you said when not paying attention, but it still happens. The overall effect on my bottom line is hard to measure all the way through the entire production chain, Iâm not exactly keeping precise ledgers or anything, but it only takes the loss of a single hulk to almost completely negate any profit I would otherwise be making on anything less than R16 moon ore. For this reason I only bring out the hulks on the R32/64s.
Aside from the rorqual changes there are many other changes in here that are worth mentioning, but Iâm not really interested in picking this apart piece by piece in this forum right now.
Did I miss a projected release date somewhere? If it was left out what is the expected release time frame?
Theyâve explained it perfectly. Tech II miners have a base 34% loss probability that can be altered by crystals.
The state the rorqual was in, was absolute pure cancer that has been widely accepted for years. There does not appear to be any balance point of that amount of mining power in a single ship even against the cost of the ship + its vulnerability sieged up. The model of using subcaps to mine and command ships to boost is not a new idea, and in fact has been the standard mining model for the majority of eveâs history.
The type A crystals do not alter the loss probability. If you use those, on average about 1 in 3 cycles will generate waste.
the type B crystals increase the waste probability by 30% but in addition to increasing yield by 80%, also decreases cycle time by 20%.
The only case where you could possibly lose any ore over what you are mining now, is if you use tech I miners AND compress. Tech I miners will mine the same amount per cycle now beyond the yield bonuses on barges and exhumers, and will always waste an equal amount of ore per cycle nullifying the doubled goo quantity in moons. Given that the crystals have been simplified, skill point requirements reduced, and their benefits strengthened, I would expect most if not all miners to quickly move to using tech II miners and crystals now that they are far more compelling to use, require fewer skill points to use and require fewer crystals on hand to mine with.
Rorqual compression loss is almost nothing, so increasing your effective carrying capacity of goo by 1000% (or however long the compression module can keep up) isnât just a little bit longer, its a lot longer. Myself, I am not so sure I would actually use moon goo compression, I think I would rather continue running a speed fit miasmos back and forth to get it unloaded and be done with it + the ore safe, then move it with a freighter later, but whether you compress or unload, the range increases in subcaps will make a big difference
TIS video on this has good info about it from Kenneth feld and a couple CCP employees. some of the points in it have been updated by the update on this thread
I hope all the CCP folks are listening to the comments on R4âsâŚthis change really flies in the face of âend of scarcityâ.
First of Im not arguing that the state of rorquals currently is a bit op, and I understand eves history I have been playing on and off since 2013. Not as long as some but long enough to understand. Granted I could not fly a rorqual until about 2 years ago, but I digress.
I still think youâre still misunderstanding my concern, it sounds like youâre just talking about the yield of individual exhumers, which I understand is increasing. But this is not really my point, so let me reiterate in the form of a question.
You have 1 rorqual and 4 hulks CURRENTLY (assume fully trained everything, t2 core etc), with the new mechanics how many hulks would you need to equal roughly the same amount of yield factoring in waste? Just ignore compression and other differences for now, as suggested, there are alternatives strategies to avoid that. If the answer that is still 4 then I concede your point, but that does not seem to be the case.
@CCP_Dopamine is it alright to post suggestions here, or is there a better forum thread for that?